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CONLANG  August 2015, Week 1

CONLANG August 2015, Week 1

Subject:

Re: How much Conlang is too much for a script?

From:

"Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:49:06 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (153 lines)

I always prefer subtitles to dubbing, even if I don't know or care to learn
the language being spoken (OK, having a hard time imagining a language I
don't care to learn at all, but you get the point. :))

I was in Austria when a new Hollywood movie came out I wanted to see, but
all the American movies in regular theatres there are dubbed into German,
so I had to go to a local art-house cinema in order to hear the original
English. It didn't even have German subtitles!

On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 4:22 AM, Thomas Ruhm <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> If you watch a film in original language with subtitles, it still sounds
> exotic to you but it shouldn't because people from the country where the
> film is from won't think it is exotic but just normal. Dubbed films are
> more like they were ment to be.
>
> Sometimes I wish real life had optional subtitles. That would make it much
> easier for me to learn other languages. Like with the films I wouldn't be
> watching them all the time.
>
> 2015-08-01 4:31 GMT+02:00 Jeffrey Brown <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> > And so, Nina-Kristine,
> > By reading through the replies you've received, you will get a good idea
> > about how much of a conlang should appear in your script, IF the intended
> > audience is conlangers.
> > But, if you are aiming for a general audience, or any other sort of
> > audience, you ought to ask representatives of that group about their
> > opinions. That's the only way you'll be able to calibrate your script.
> > Jeffrey
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 4:14 AM, Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > It goes the other way, as well.  SF set in the far future, even a
> > > far-future Earth, even a far-future America, should not feature people
> > > speaking modern English... but we can't really predict what it should
> > > feature.. and we do want comprehensibility above all.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 4:54 AM, Sid <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Personally, it makes *more* sense to me if two characters with a
> > > > non-English native language are speaking "English". In many films
> where
> > > > characters should logically be speaking something else, they're
> > depicted
> > > as
> > > > being shown as speaking English. Why? Because unless the *point* of
> the
> > > > film is to be as accurate as possible, authors and film makers prefer
> > > > showing characters speaking in a way familiar to their audience, to
> > make
> > > it
> > > > easier to emphasize with the characters. Same applies to historical
> > > > versions of English.
> > > >
> > > > It would make more sense for them to speak the conlang when a
> > non-speaker
> > > > is there, to depict them as hiding the conversation from the
> > non-speaker.
> > > >
> > > > TV Tropes refers to this depiction of foreign languages as the native
> > one
> > > > as "Translation Convention". It is standard in SF, fantasy, and
> > > historical
> > > > films. And it applies to languages other than English; for example,
> > > > animation from Japan routinely depicts foreign and alien cultures as
> > > > speaking Japanese, to the point where they make jokes and puns that
> > only
> > > > work in Japanese. Nonetheless, they're not really speaking Japanese.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:24 PM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > In both fantasy and period and historical drama I find the use of
> > > > > > contemporary English acts as an impediment to suspension of
> > > disbelief.
> > > > > Even
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree, with respect to historical films (including fantasy set
> in a
> > > > > definite historical period on Earth).
> > > > >
> > > > > > for fantasy worlds rightly praised for their breadth and detail
> of
> > > > their
> > > > > > imagined worlds, such as the World of Ice and Fire, the role of
> > > English
> > > > > > subverts it (tho enhances the literary qualities in other ways).
> > And
> > > it
> > > > >
> > > > > With secondary world fantasy, though, I don't necessarily mind
> > > > > contemporary English.  Presumably whatever language the characters
> > are
> > > > > speaking is being translated for us, and why not into contemporary
> > > > > English rather than some archaic chronolect?  Of course, if in some
> > > > > scenes the characters should be speaking in a formal mode or
> elevated
> > > > > dialect, and the dialogue uses the same colloquial, informal mode
> of
> > > > > English as the other scenes, that's a flaw.  But putting all the
> > > > > dialogue into formal, slightly archaic English isn't necessarily
> > > > > better (unless the producers are going for a "high fantasy" feel,
> > with
> > > > > larger than life characters and a mythic story -- which doesn't
> > > > > necessarily follow from a secondary world setting).
> > > > >
> > > > > Ideally, I suppose, all secondary world fantasy film would be in
> one
> > > > > or more conlangs with subtitles.  But few viewers would stand for
> it,
> > > > > which raises the question of whether and in what sense it's really
> > > > > ideal.
> > > > >
> > > > > > always surprises me how in period film and TV, makers and
> audiences
> > > > care
> > > > > so
> > > > > > much about accuracy and avoidance of anachronism in costume and
> > > > > > mise-en-scene yet not at all in language.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some don't care, I suppose, and some think (perhaps rightly) that
> > > > > viewers would be turned off by period dialogue.  For films set in
> the
> > > > > 17th century or earlier in English-speaking countries, I suppose
> they
> > > > > may be right; but I think most intelligent viewers could handle
> > > > > period-accurate 18th or at least 19th century dialogue,
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Jim Henry
> > > > > http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
> > > > > http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
> > >
> >
>



-- 
Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>

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January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
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May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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