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CONLANG  August 2015, Week 1

CONLANG August 2015, Week 1

Subject:

Re: How much Conlang is too much for a script?

From:

Thomas Ruhm <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 1 Aug 2015 20:56:55 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (91 lines)

Star Trek in Italian is fun because they are shouting at one another in
anger all the time where otherwise they would just talk.

I've been told that for some books the translations are better than the
originals.

Incubus is a bit boring and I probably would never have read about it if it
weren't in Esperanto.

When I watch Japanese series I only read about half the subtitles and I
learnt quite a bit that way.

There was an epsisode of Hercules were their reincarnations were French
men, and they had really strong French accents and that was silly and
annoying. I did not know that about Das Boot. I hope it sounds good.

2015-08-01 18:45 GMT+02:00 And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>:

> On 31 Jul 2015 09:32, "Jim Henry" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:24 PM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > In both fantasy and period and historical drama I find the use of
> > > contemporary English acts as an impediment to suspension of disbelief.
> Even
> >
> > I agree, with respect to historical films (including fantasy set in a
> > definite historical period on Earth).
> >
> > > for fantasy worlds rightly praised for their breadth and detail of
> their
> > > imagined worlds, such as the World of Ice and Fire, the role of English
> > > subverts it (tho enhances the literary qualities in other ways). And it
> >
> > With secondary world fantasy, though, I don't necessarily mind
> > contemporary English.  Presumably whatever language the characters are
> > speaking is being translated for us, and why not into contemporary
> > English rather than some archaic chronolect?  Of course, if in some
> > scenes the characters should be speaking in a formal mode or elevated
> > dialect, and the dialogue uses the same colloquial, informal mode of
> > English as the other scenes, that's a flaw.  But putting all the
> > dialogue into formal, slightly archaic English isn't necessarily
> > better (unless the producers are going for a "high fantasy" feel, with
> > larger than life characters and a mythic story -- which doesn't
> > necessarily follow from a secondary world setting).
>
> I meant that the impediment to suspension of disbelief is that the
> characters are not actually speaking the language they're supposed to be
> speaking. Having them speak cod archaic English wouldn't be any better.
> (Usually it would be sillier, but in the tv series Deadwood the characters
> spoke like published prose of the period, which was unrealistic but very
> entertaining.)
>
> The convention of translation diminishes verisimilitude which in turn
> impedes suspension of disbelief. This doesn't necessarily impoverish the
> work of art, of course; a frank eschewal of verisimilitude, e.g. as in Von
> Trier's _Dogville_ (and indeed as in the theatre), may heighten the
> aesthetic impact.
>
> Famously, _The Lord of the Rings_ handles the question of translation
> superbly, but that won't work so well for films, where you see and hear the
> characters speak, not mediated through the narrator. AFAICS, the Song of
> Ice and Fire books  don't have a story that accounts for their use of
> English or rather for the Englishoid onomastics and other invented lexis,
> which appears to be diachronically stratified: it is deftly done, and its
> Englishoidality resonates with the reader, thanks to whose familiarity with
> English the novel lexis triggers a potent sense of partial recognition, of
> familiarity alloyed with unfamiliarity. But lacking Tolkien's account of
> the translation, the Englishoidality impedes suspension of disbelief,
> reminds the reader (or readers like me) of the authorial artifice.
>
> > > always surprises me how in period film and TV, makers and audiences
> care so
> > > much about accuracy and avoidance of anachronism in costume and
> > > mise-en-scene yet not at all in language.
> >
> > Some don't care, I suppose, and some think (perhaps rightly) that
> > viewers would be turned off by period dialogue.  For films set in the
> > 17th century or earlier in English-speaking countries, I suppose they
> > may be right; but I think most intelligent viewers could handle
> > period-accurate 18th or at least 19th century dialogue,
>
> It would be very hard to write the dialogue period-accurate, and the actors
> would be unable to pronounce it right. I don't have that much idea how it
> sounded, but I do know it deffo didn't sound like present day speech. Even
> dramas set only a few decades back, even set within my own lifetime, sound
> anachronistic. My point is not that the actors or directors should be
> faulted for this, but rather that it impedes suspension of disbelief.
>
> --And.
>

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