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CONLANG  August 2015, Week 1

CONLANG August 2015, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Glottal stop in German

From:

Jason Cullen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 5 Aug 2015 13:47:47 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (116 lines)

I am rapidly approaching my daily 7, so apologies if I disappear!

Like I mentioned to Mark, I skimmed and misunderstood his original
question. (Oops!)

Why do you analyze 'reschmooze' as a 'word within a word'? I would analyze
it as a prefix affixed to a word, making a new word. Not a word within a
word. Then again, I think most linguists who work in morphology have
quietly abandoned the word 'word', because different languages have
different phonological, morphological, and syntactic requirements for
'words'. I would say 'schmooze' and 'reschmooze' are both full-fledged
'words' in any definition of 'word'...

Also, if there were really such a restriction against non-word initial
forms, then wouldn't a non-word initial usage of ʃC be difficult to
pronounce? For example, an onset sequence of C[+stop]+N is restricted in
English, but allowed in Russian. Книга [ˈkni:gə], "book," is notoriously
hard for beginning students of Russian. And it's hard only because English
has a 'restriction' for such consonant sequences. But Hungarian for
'Budapest' [budapɛʃt] is not difficult to pronounce at all for native
speakers of English. So is it really 'restricted', as a stop+nasal
consonant sequence in English is, or is it just randomly absent in most
English lexemes?

Thanks!

Jason

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 1:31 PM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Mark J. Reed, On 05/08/2015 18:42:
>
>> I would indeed take [ŋ] to be a realization of /ng/ for all dialects of
>>>
>> English
>>
>> In that case, what determines whether /ng/ becomes [ŋg] (finger) vs just
>> [ŋ]
>> (singer)?
>>
>
> To avoid getting bogged down in the detail of my actual answer, I'll give
> a simplified answer: /ng/ is [ŋ] word-finally, and [ŋg] otherwise. More
> exactly, the /g/ in /ng/ is realized as [_] (i.e. phonetic nullity)
> word-finally, and as [g] otherwise. The simplification in the answer has to
> do with what counts as a 'word' or whatever we call the relevant
> phonological domain. _Singer_ is a word within a word, [[sing]er].
>
> To anticipate the questions that you would ask next:
> 1. Although _longer_ is made up of _long_ and _-er_, they are
> exceptionally combined into a single simplex word, [longer] rather than
> than [[long]er], in a form that is actually suppletive. (So it is similar
> to _best_, which is made up of _be-_ and _-st_, in a simplex [best].)
> 2. For those who pronounce words like _hangar_ and _dinghy_ without [g],
> they are [[hang]er] (something that involves 'hanging', whatever this
> 'hanging' is) and [[ding]y] (a little 'ding', a 'ding' presumably being a
> boat).
> 3. The evidence for the morphological analysis in 1 & 2 is purely
> phonological. The overall analysis is therefore circular. Glottolinguistics
> (my term for the branch of linguistics that belongs to natural philosophy
> -- see my future reply to BP that I have not yet got around to writing) is
> inherently circular: its goal is to provide the simplest analysis of the
> set of grammatical sentences; there is no uncircular process whereby new
> analyses are based on known facts.
>
> Jason Cullen, On 05/08/2015 18:47:>>
>
>> In English, /S/+C in onsets (_shmuck, shlong, shnozz, shtoom,_ etc.) is
>>> restricted to word-initial position. That's not exactly an instance of a
>>> phoneme confined to a particular position, but it is an example of a
>>> particular phonological configuration restricted to word-initial
>>> positions,
>>> so I accept there are instances of such restrictions.
>>>
>>
>> If I could weigh in here, /S/C sequences are not restricted to
>> word-initial
>> positions. You could reschmooze someone. While {re-}+schmooze is not a
>> dictionary-listed term, it's a perfectly acceptable 'utterance' from a
>> native speaker of English (maybe not Yiddish).
>>
>
> This would be another case of a word within a word: [re[shmooze]]. In my
> own work I don't use the term 'word' for this; I was using it in this
> discussion just so as to use simpler terminology, rather than torturing
> anybody with my own terminological innovations.
>
> Jason Cullen, On 05/08/2015 18:54:
>
>> In that case, what determines whether /ng/ becomes [ŋg] (finger) vs
>>> just [ŋ] (singer)?
>>>
>>
>> I suspect two things. First, English loves Maximize Onset, where coda
>> consonants move to occupy empty onsets. (Example: "teach" [tiːtʃ], but
>> "teacher" [ˈtiː.tʃɚ] (/tʃ/ moves from coda of the stem to the onset of the
>> suffix, creating a CVCV word). However, English has a constraint */ŋ/ in
>> onsets. (Which is why so many Americans nearly go mad trying to learn
>> Tibetan or Cantonese, where you have 'ng' in onsets.) So /ŋ/--> [g]/s[__
>> (That is, a velar nasal becomes a velar stop when it is in the onset of a
>> syllable.)
>>
>
> What's your story for _singer_? It can't be that the internal
> word-boundary blocks Onset Maximization, because you've already said Onset
> Maximization applies to _teacher_.
>
> --And.
>



-- 
Jason Cullen
MA Applied English Linguistics

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