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CONLANG  August 2015, Week 2

CONLANG August 2015, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Simpler than Hodor

From:

MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:35:02 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (95 lines)

vortaro.net works better than vortaro.org for me.

stevo

On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Patrik Austin <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Stevo:
>
> NPIV (www.vortaro.org) says: kuno
> 1 Kuneco: la tagoj feliĉaj de nia kun’.
> 2 Tuto de homoj kunaj: en ŝaŭmantan ĝojon fandiĝis nia kuno (W).
>
> Daniel:
>
> > Absolutely. I've focused mainly on the two-category language because it's
> very interesting, and because FL is defined in terms of it. Can I call the
> two-category language Hodor? :)
>
> There's already a language called Hodor
> http://www.hypepotamus.com/companies/hodor-hodor-hodor-new-programming-language-comes-atl/
> so let's call it something else. For lack of a better name we could talk
> about FL1 and FL2 where the digit indicates the number of formal lexical
> categories ‒ so here we'd be talking about FL2.
>
> > The topic isn't a seeing, since below you argue the acc isn't a house.
> Rather, the seeing has a topic, like the house has an acc (which has that
> same topic).
>
> Right, so to be precise, house is an object, not an accusative. This
> distinction somehow seems to fade in FL1. I wasn't thinking about it, but
> you're right, seeing is not the topic, but seeing has a topic, and that's
> basically what we happen to be talking about. Someone suggested 'clause'
> and that could actually be possible as well.
>
> The conjunction 'topic' is semantically pretty neutral; you could also say
> 'apropos'. And the apropos or topic doesn't have to be the action. Hence
> the O/S/V order is free, but I'm not sure I should mess with the word order
> at this point…
>
> In any case if you use 'action' (or possibly even 'verb') as a
> conjunction, the functional word class of 'see' will be verb. A kinda
> similar thing occurs in English when you use different particles for a word
> that could be a verb or a noun, e.g. to hit vs. a hit; the particle
> indicates the functional or contextual POS. But formally they are only
> nouns, or as Logan said, there's no distinction between noun and verb.
>
> The difference is though that all particles are supposed to work the same
> way semantically. If not, there's been a mistake, but it's normally just a
> question of the dictionary semantics.
>
> > "The with is what's with the dog"... Isn't it more like, the dog has a
> with, which can have other things? I don't see how the with could "be"
> other nouns mentioned.
>
> I think both definitions should work fine. Compare the following:
>
> The in (interior) of the house is what's in the house.
> The above of the house is what's above the house.
>
> Similarly:
>
> The house has an in (an interior) that can have other things, e.g. people,
> furniture.
> The house has an above that can have other things, e.g. birds, clouds,
> airplanes.
>
> > I think where I stand right now is, I like Hodor but I'm not sure I
> undesrtand it; and I think I understand FL but I'm not sure I like it. But
> I'll let you know what I really think once I really think something.
>
> OK so you like FL2, and you probably understand FL1? That's pretty much
> what I've been hoping for a lot because so far I've been the only crazy
> one, and it hasn't always been easy. Now that there are two nutcases, maybe
> it'll prove to be contagious :)
>
> I didn't think FL2 would be a speakable language, but when I saw it, I was
> surprised how tolerable it turned out. I also think that it could work as a
> kind of mind twister that could perhaps improve your thinking skills. As
> mentioned before, it may be wise to keep the structures shallow so that the
> language can actually be usable. However…
>
> English and French have such intricate orthographies that schools arrange
> spelling contests. How about a parsing contest in FL2? How deep structures
> would you be able to handle without a pen and paper? (Count me out, though!)
>
> The truth is that anyone could use FL2 better than me. There are just
> three or four rules, and it's up to the user to work out what's right.
> Anyone can prove me wrong about anything I've told and propose a better
> wording according to the given rules. What I like about the whole series of
> FL languages is that there's no other authority than their built-in logic,
> and that logic is based on how the logical mechanisms work in minimalistic
> structures. So it's all about discovery.
>

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