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CONLANG  September 2015, Week 1

CONLANG September 2015, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Conjunctional languages are boring!

From:

Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 1 Sep 2015 14:40:00 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (166 lines)

On 1 September 2015 at 05:19, Patrik Austin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> This thread is getting a bit complicated, but I think it needs to stay that way as for now. So, in this message I'm going to offer more precise semantic definitions for FL1 and FL2, and compare them to paaS. Here's for accusative ambiguity in FL1:
>
>>> ((assault (topic)
>>> (((boy (accusative (topic)
>>> ((((interior (house (accusative (topic)
>>> (((girl (nominative (topic)
>
> [Daniel:] > The "topic" is one thing but I take it there are two distinct instances of
> "accusative"? But how would I conclude that without already knowing the
> English translation?
>
> The English phrase was "A girl assaults (a boy in the house)" where both a boy and the house are part of the object; i.e. in the accusative.
>
> With the grammar S ‒> aS, where a is in S, more plausible object sentences are:
>
> (((boy (accusative (topic)
> ((((house (inessive (accusative (topic)
>
> where the house is in inessive (in-location), inessive is in accusative, and accusative is in the topic, which actually is not the topic, but a case of the topic (a topic-case). The topic can include several such cases, which can be nominative, accusative, locative etc. Like in natural languages, verbs can also be put in cases, but actually I want to change strategy here, because there's an easier way to do the job.

So far, I am getting confused by your unbalanced parentheses. For that
last example, did you mean something like

(boy (accusative (topic (house (inessive (accusative (topic)))))))

or

(((((((boy) accusative) topic) house) inessive) accusative) topic)

?

And if not, could you explain your parenthesization convention, and
how it relates to the FL1 grammar?

> Namely, the grammar S ‒> aS, where *a is in a role of S*, both the boy and the house are part of the object, which is one of the roles of (i.e. under) the topic. With this definition we can ditch nominative and accusative altogether and use subject and object roles instead:
>
> (((assault (verb (topic)
> (((boy (object (topic)
> ((((house (interior (object (topic)
> (((girl (subject (topic)
>
> I think this is looking a lot neater, check out:
>
> - assault is in a role of verb
> - boy is in a role of object
> - house is in a role of interior (in-location); and importantly, interior is in a role of the object (it follows logically that if you kick something which is included in the interior of a house, you kick the interior of that house; however the house is not a role of the object.)
> - girl is in a role of subject.
> - all are roles of topic. So the topic has many roles, which are syntactic roles (role1).

I was leaning towards suggesting just this interpretation / further
specification for your "is in" semantics. You beat me to it. :)

Looking at it this way makes the ambiguity in the syntax-semantics
interpretation rule very, very clear. If we say that the meaning of an
'a' followed by the remainder of an 'S' is given by the assertion that
the referent of 'a' occupies *some* role of the denotation of 'S',
then two important questions remain unanswered:

1. Which role is being occupied? The denotation of 'S' could have any
number of open slots for different kinds of additional participants to
be inserted, and the grammar so far gives no way of distinguishing
*which one* is meant in any particular case.
2. What exactly is the denotation of an embedded 'S' that gets
projected up to the next level? I.e., 'a' occupies some role *of
what*? There are only a few possible options (since a semantic graph
only has so many types of features to pick from).
 a) The denotation of an 'S' is a proposition with a truth value. That
must be case at the top level (at least for declarative sentences),
but not for embedded structures, since it just doesn't make sense for
anything to occupy a role of a truth value. So, we know already that
there must be a difference in the interpretation rules for a top-level
structure and an embedded structure.
 b) The denotation of an S is one of the arguments in the internal
semantic structure of the S (or a wrapper around such that provides
formal machinery for specifying how it links into higher structures).
 c) The denotation of an S is a compound predicate or lambda
expression with open argument places to be filled.

Options (b) and (c) could be collapsed into one, given the
parenthetical about wrapping arguments/entities in some larger
expression that would make them equivalent to compound predicates with
open argument slots. Since option (a) is nonsensical, the meaning of
an embedded S *must* be some version of (b) and/or (c). So now we can
ask: exactly how do you determine *which* possible compound predicate,
or which precise set of open argument positions, is exposed by an
embedded 'S' to be available for the 'a' in the next level up to fill?

If the answers to these questions are "'S' exposes every slot you can
think of" and "'a' occupies whatever role you think makes sense", then
you have Gil's minimal IMA language.

> It follows from the formula that each recursive element is a role marker for the initial element. So you can say that there are two syntactic classes: initial element (a) and role marker (S). There's only one lexical class which is noun. Boy can be a noun, but with an added hyponym it takes the role of a role marker (see example below).
>
> I think in my research I'm going to use a slightly different formula. From linguistics POV all FL1 sentences are endocentric compounds where A+B (a+S) denotes a special kind of B. I have to check the terminology, but you could say that A is a specification of B. This way we have as an example
>
> farm+boy, a boy who relates to, or is specified by, the farm.
>
> While I think it's not directly a case of ambiguity, the relationship in this example is relatively vague. To have a more precise language we can stick to the above grammar S ‒> aS, where a is in a role of S. Here one could argue that farm is not sufficient for a role of the boy. However, an unlimited number of specifiers, or intermediate roles, may be inserted, e.g.
>
> farm+boy
> farm+location+boy
> farm+in+location+boy
>
> for "boy in the farm".

This seems to me to be precisely the *opposite* of your prior
formulation. In this case, it makes sense that the denotation of every
'S' is an entity, and every 'a' is a predicate with a well-defined set
of open argument slots that the denotation of 'S' could fill. This
still presents the same kinds of ambiguity as above, though- we have
no way of knowing *which* argument slot is intended (which role the
entity described by 'S' is intended to be in), nor which entity is
intended to be projected to the next level up. *Unless* all of that
knowledge is lexically encoded in the definition of every 'a'; but
that seems very unwieldy, and impractical for a usable human language.
In fact, there was a Speculative Grammarian article on that very
subject: http://specgram.com/SoLP/07.fasnacht.vov.html .

This does bring up the possibility, however, that some of these
semantic selection rules *can* be lexically encoded. But if you manage
to resolve all of the ambiguities through lexically-specified rules
(which is what you seem to be going for with the special words for
"topic", "accusative", "inessive", etc.), then your super-simple
*syntax* isn't really all that impressive anymore. In that case, you
haven't made an exceptionally simple language- you've just stuffed all
of the complexity into the dictionary instead of the syntax rules. And
if you find that there are a relatively small number of classes of
lexical elements that tend to share similar structure in their
selection rules, then it no longer really makes sense to call it a
monocategorial language- it then has multiple practical parts of
speech distinguished by their selection rules, and it has an
effectively more complicated syntax restricted by the ways in which it
"makes sense" to combine words with different selection classes.

> Anyway, as for paaS, the CKY parser generates just one instance of recursion, but I tried the "brute force parser" of JFLAP which does give an endless right recursion, the parse tree being (paa (paa (paa (paa (paa)))))…
>
> In other words paaS has one infinite branch. This is modest in comparison to FL2 which allows n items on level 2, each of which have n subitems on level 3 (i.e. n to the power of n). On level 4 each of the n subitems have n subitems of their own etc. (i.e. n to the power of n to the power of n to the power of…).

Yes. It's just a straight linear list, with no internal branching or
non-trivial recursion at all.

> So we're talking about two formal grammars: FL2 which generates endlessly complex trees, and paaS which only generates a very limited tree. That's why I suggest it is best interpreted as a linear FL1 type language with the grammar S -> aaaS, where the proper parse tree can be drawn based on a morphological analysis, rather than an nonlinear FL2 language for which complex parse trees are generated by conventional formal means. How would you address this?

I would say that a monocategorial reinterpretation of S -> paaS as S
-> aaaS ignores the wildly different lexical properties of predicate
words vs. argument words which justify putting them in different
classes, and in doing so ends up allowing an infinite number of
sentences that, while maintaining the restriction that their word
count be a multiple of three, cannot be assigned any meaning by the
language's interpretation rules. Not just "no sensible meaning" but
"no meaning whatsoever"- sentences for which no semantic graph can be
constructed. It thus makes no sense to claim that that is, in fact,
the grammar of this language.

*Unless*, of course, you re-interpret 'a's not as separate
argument-words, but as morphological inflections on a 'p', which
should not be reflected at the level of syntax. In which case, the
multiple-of-three restriction is no longer valid, and the full syntax
of the language becomes simply S -> aS | 0; i.e., any list of words
will do. The *interpretation rules* for the syntax of this language
would be, however, *very* different from the interpretation rules for
your FL1.

-l.

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April 2007, Week 5
April 2007, Week 4
April 2007, Week 3
April 2007, Week 2
April 2007, Week 1
March 2007, Week 5
March 2007, Week 4
March 2007, Week 3
March 2007, Week 2
March 2007, Week 1
February 2007, Week 4
February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
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January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
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December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
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November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
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July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
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May 2006, Week 5
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May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
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January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
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January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
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November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
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May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
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February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
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October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
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October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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August 2004, Week 5
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August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
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July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
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May 2004, Week 3
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May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 3
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February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
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December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
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December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
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October 2000, Week 5
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March 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
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December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
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October 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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