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CONLANG  September 2015, Week 2

CONLANG September 2015, Week 2

Subject:

Re: OT: narrative-space, was Re: A Sister for WSL

From:

Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 14 Sep 2015 18:14:02 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (53 lines)

On 14 September 2015 at 17:48, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:15:53 -0600, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>Hm. I was recently looking at "the space of all possible narratives".
>>Turns out it's not a vector space, *is* a topological space, and may
>>or may not be a metric space (but if it is, is probably non-abelian).
>>Anyway, that's a whole nother rabbit hole, but I mention it because
>>coming up with a model of a metric space for languages might be a deep
>>and interesting research project all on its own.
>
> Come on, you can't just leave that there!  What is the topology on narratives?  For that matter, what is à narrative, what is a point in the space?  The only systems for classifying narrative I've bumped into are discrete, like decomposition into a list of motifs after Propp or Thompson (to say nothing of the approaches which are entirely just stamp-collecting).
>
> Ooh, could you enrich it in a diachronic direction?  Construct some sort of (probabilistic) flow or dynamical system or whatever on the space of narratives describing how they evolve with time?  I don't know much about these tendencies but they include e.g. syncretic trends like reattribution of events from minor characters to major ones, or... there was a recent story (couldn't refind it now; on some podcast?) about somehow who found a shipwreck by listening to the crew's stories and knowing how to recognise which of them had been subject to distortions memory: -- or that.

Of all the things to latch onto, you must pick the one that involves
the *most abstract* math,,,

This actually came up in the context of video games (I've a friend
who's an aspiring video game designer, and incidentally also getting
into conlanging for worldbuilding purposes), and how really good video
games are basically extreme interactive versions of choose-your-own
adventure stories. The "basis vectors" (not a good name for them,
really, since we figure out it isn't actually a vector space) are the
state transition functions representing the possible actions that a
character can perform or that can occur to alter the game state.

Each point in the space is game state (or "world state" if you want to
divorce the idea from its videogame-inspired roots), including
history; or, equivalently, a transition function produced by
composition of the basis elements in a particular order that maps the
start state onto the target world state. The narrative is that same
function, or a else a description of the effect of that function
produced as a side-effect of the application of each basis function in
order.

Even more fully fleshed out, the model is a bit too low-level to be
useful for analyzing collections of pre-existing stories. Breaking
arbitrary natural-language narratives down into a consistent set of
basic generators for the group of points in narrative space would
be... tedious, to say the least. It's much easier when you start with
an a-priori set of generators (the rules of the game) and explore what
narratives they can produce.

If you did come up with a set of generator elements for a space
containing natural language narratives, and found a way to define a
consistent metric on it, you might be able to do some interesting
analysis by, e.g., identifying equivalence classes where different
compositions get you to the same end point, or modelling alterations
over time by the drift of narrative mid-points to different but nearby
locations in narrative space.

-l.

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September 2002, Week 1
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