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CONLANG  October 2015, Week 3

CONLANG October 2015, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Jul23/C6 (was No Phonology!)

From:

J S Jones <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 17 Oct 2015 14:17:49 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (70 lines)

On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 17:44:54 -0600, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>On 15 October 2015 at 03:31, J S Jones <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:40:59 -0600, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>[...]
>>>I spent more time than I should have puzzling over the orthography
>>>section; I think it would help to change "Each symbol is composed of 3
>>>components: 1 from each line, representing the octal digits." to say
>>>"...one from each row..." instead. I was thinking of the lines that
>>>make up the glyphs, and was thoroughly confused.
>>
>> I guess "line" should be "row of table"?
>
>That would be even clearer, yes. :)

OK

>>>In Derivational Morphology, the Concatenation section has "Insert math
>>>here"; I would like to see that math! It is not clear to me exactly
>>>what "product" or "composition" mean in this case.
>>
>> I'll need to look it up in the compiler theory textbook, but the idea is
>>
>> R3 (a, c) = R1 (a, b) x R2 (b, c)
>>
>> where R1, R2, and R3 are relations.
>
>The thing that isn't clear to me is why that doesn't form a trivalent
>predicate. I suppose the 'b' argument just gets discarded? That would
>fit with your kinship term usage- if, say, "father-father" meant
>"paternal grandfather", and you don't care about mentioning the father
>in the middle of that relationship. In which case the math, if you
>even need to include it (which I'm not certain you really do) would be
>a join of the two relations on the shared argument (or, if we want to
>get really strict, a rename so that X, Y columns of each predicate are
>renamed to the appropriate a, b, and c labels, followed by a join)
>followed by a projection onto the remaining a, c / X, Y columns.

I just checked the Compiler Design text and they say

"Given relations P and Q, their _product_ is the relation consisting of all pairs (a, b) for which there is a c such that aPc and cQb."

They use a dot as the product operator, as in R = P dot Q.

>>>Also, I'm a little unclear on how you figure out which arguments are
>>>which when there's a mixture of full phrases and index clitics.
>>
>> Where there are 2 arguments, the full phrase matches the non-indexed argument, if that's your question. I would think that the instances where all arguments are phrases would be more difficult. Or is your question about how to know the argument structure of a given predicate? In
>>
>> child=Def=3C pie=Ind eat-Prf=Tmp fork=Def 3C-wash=Fin
>>
>> the main predicate "wash" has a prefixed agent (3C) and a suffixed patient (0).
>
>I kinda figured if all the arguments are phrases, then they just go in
>X-Y-Z order.

It's actually Y Z X, as specified in the Basic Morphosyntax chapter (which needs a lot of work).

>In this case, I'm guessing the 0-patient suffix counts as the
>"non-indexed" argument? If so, then I can see how that sentence works,
>but how do you, for example distinguish between an indexed Y with a 0
>Z prefix, vs. a 0 Y and indexed Z? Is that just handled by what
>semantically "makes sense"?
>
>-l.

At present, Z- is limited to the localizers and can't be indexed. However, there are (of course) reasons to change this. I may have to introduce animacy/gender distinctions as used in many of my sketches; Z would be inanimate only and Y would be animate only (for trivalents). But that would complicate the whole grammar.

Jeff

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