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CONLANG  October 2015, Week 3

CONLANG October 2015, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Principles for IALs

From:

Gleki Arxokuna <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:23:04 +0300

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (122 lines)

2015-10-20 11:00 GMT+03:00 R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>:

> On 19/10/2015 23:19, And Rosta wrote:
>
>> On 19 Oct 2015 21:50, "Jörg Rhiemeier" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19.10.2015 21:59, And Rosta wrote:
>>>
>>> IMO an IAL would be nice to have, but only if it's a
>>>> really really good loglang, better than any we
>>>> currently have. So I wouldn't agree with any of your
>>>>  IAL principles, tho I recognize that you articulate
>>>> a mainstream and traditional view.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I disagree.
>>>
>>
> As so I.
>
> Which bit do you disagree with? IIRC you are not an IAL
>> proponent, because you recognize that English already
>> serves that function.
>>
>
> I recognize that English currently serves as s global
> auxiliary.  I have observed on many occasions that
> throughout human history, natlangs (often in a modified,
> internationalized form, e.g. Greek Koine, Medieval Latin)
> have served as regional IALs.  it seems humans have a
> preference for natlangs even with all the "drawbacks" of one
> like English.
>
> The loglang IAL doesn't compete with English (or
>> Esperanto).
>>
>
> Oh, but it will compete with Esperanto & other IAL conlangs
> and even with other loglangs.


Oh well, competing with other loglangs would be wonderful given that the
number of loglangs with active communities is currently ~= 1.5

  If you do not realize that
> then I must assume you are unfamiliar with the flame wars
> that used to bedevil the Auxlang list.
>
> Whether Jörg's is not a proponent of artificial IALs simply
> because English is a de_facto IAL, I don't know.  In my
> case, I am not as a result of my once involvement with them:
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/IAL.html
>
> See also:
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20120716230133/http://www.rickharrison.com/language/farewell.html
>
> Which views I am in agreement with.
>
> And you presumably understand that the loglang has the
>> advantage of encoding propositional thought without
>> ambiguity and without limit to the thought's complexity,
>> and presumably can appreciate that that has considerable
>> practical value.
>>
>
> That's why we have modern formal logic, when such things are
> required.
>
> Interestingly, the global IAL has been part of Loglan;
> movement from the start.  JCB had written:
> "... Loglan would probably be seen as ideal in the role of
> that international auxiliary, for example: the first
> language to be taught to the world's school children, the
> one slated to become everybody's second language... our
> engineered new second-language would ... perhaps also [be] a
> culture-spanning bridge to a more tolerant and peaceful world."
>

I can clearly SWH-ish bias in that.
Like if at that time one had no other ideas of how such a language can be
used.
Promoting such ideas these days might even look hilarious and cause
immediate aversion.


> Interesting that the idea of an IAL bringing about world
> peace, claims made by Ro, Volapük, Esperanto and all the
> hundreds of other IALs is again iterated by the inventor of
> the first loglang.
>
> I recall that a world IAL used to be listed as among the
> possible uses of Lojban; but I notice that no longer appears
> on the new Lojban website:
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Lojban
>
> But it does seem that the dream of an artificial IAL is that
> of some (many?) loglangers.
>

It no longer appears there because not just some but almost none of fluent
speakers of Lojban are interested in that.
Most Lojbanists already do speak one auxlang (ISO 639-3 code "eng") so why
bother.
There can be of course claims from newcomers that aim at auxlangish ideas
but I think they mostly want to promote something whereas the Lojban
community requires you to actually learn the language.


>
> But IMHO the advocacy of a loglang or any other conlang as
> an IAL does not belong here.  I strongly suggest that this
> thread is moved to Auxlang where it belongs.


https://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A0=AUXLANG
I suppose this is where one can subscribe to, right? (No one pointed the
author to it so)

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