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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  October 2015, Week 4

CONLANG October 2015, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Good conlang samples (was: Theory: THEORY Conlanging advice)

From:

MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:07:10 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (165 lines)

I've heard that part of the reason that Esperanto got off to such a good
start is that so much poetry was written in it.

stevo

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Hallo conlangers!
>
> On 25.10.2015 02:16, Padraic Brown wrote:
>
> Ray Brown wrote:
>>
>> On 22/10/2015 13:36, Decremental Bug wrote:
>>>
>>>> Padraic, this was one of the most inspiring passages about conlanging I
>>>> ever read :) Thanks.
>>>>
>>> Quite inspiring - and nice to have emails about an artlang for a change
>>>   :)
>>>
>>
>> Thank you! As you well know -- and as we can all see from your delightful
>> webpage! -- when one has been doing something of this sort, an artistic
>> pursuit, one tends to think about the activity itself. Not just in terms of
>> "how do I do x, y and z"; but "what is it I am doing" and "why am I doing
>> this?"
>>
>
> Right.  Why am I doing Old Albic?  What is it what I am doing with it?
> Well, it is several things at once.  The main motivation, of course, is
> that it is the language of a fictional culture by which means I try to
> express my views on the human condition.  At the same time, I am exploring
> the lost world of pre-IE European languages (Old Albic is meant to be one
> of them) and the prehistory of Proto-Indo-European (Old Albic is meant to
> be related to it, and to preserve some of the "sunken traits" of an
> ancestor of PIE).  And lastly, I wish to create a beautiful language ;)
>
> On the other hand, I have no aspirations to create a useful IAL, or a
> language that implements formal logic, or anything like that.  At least not
> with Old Albic.
>
> Many folks recommend against beginning with poetry or other hard kinds of
>>>> language.
>>>>
>>> I know - but really an artlang deserves something better than: "John
>>> like the dog."  "Jane likes the dog."  "John and Jane like the dog"
>>> ad_nauseam (quite literally).
>>>
>> This is true. Although of course one could deliberately chóose to render
>> _Dick and Jane_ into the conlang, for preference within its cultural
>> context, and one would necessarily end up with just such sentences. But at
>> least there would be an artistic purpose behind it! (And if I recall right,
>> it was a bit of a thing a few years back to do just that, translate such
>> books into conlang. I had planned, years ago to do _Y Wyddor_, a very
>> pretty little Welsh abcedarium, into Brithenig & Kerno, but that project
>> didn't get too far. Perhaps I'll wait for Brittanese to come out and make
>> all three!)
>>
>> I tend to favour useful or interesting or culturally pertinent sentences,
>> even when just starting a project.
>>
>
> Yes!  My favourite conlang sample is that which Mark Rosenfelder gave of
> Xurnese.  I can't find it now because zompist.com is offline, but it
> translates as: "My niece is dating a sculptor.  He hopes to govern a
> province some day."  This sounds like an utter non-sequitur - why should a
> sculptor be especially qualified for a higher adminstration position? - but
> Xurno is governed by an art academy, and this means that a sculptor can
> indeed become a province governor.  Hence, the example succinctly tells us
> something about one of the most important traits of Xurnese culture!
>
> So far, my grammar of Old Albic is lacking of example sentences, because I
> do not wish to give such trivial sentences as "The boy gave the ball to the
> girl"; rather, I'd like to use sentences from original texts such as the
> creation myth, or other sentences that shine a light on Old Albic culture,
> like the Xurnese example I mentioned above.  But for that, I need to write
> more original texts, and coin a number of words.
>
> The signature I use here cites the first sentence of an (unfinished) prose
> version of the Old Albic creation myth ('In the beginning is the One, and
> the One is in all and all is in the One'); on the ZBB, I have an Old Albic
> translation of Schiller's "Der Mensch ist nur dort wahrer Mensch, wo er
> spielt" ('Man is only true man where he plays') in my signature, which,
> while not originally Old Albic, reflects my vantage point and that of the
> Elbi quite well.
>
> Caramansian, a western relative of Talarian, for example has only one
>> sentence so far: clawthî ‘e yizreelatte: Adonaryo anzo deyuo: hiscue oyno
>> -- Hear o Israel! the Lord is our God, He is one! (Not entirely
>> coincidental, it must be admitted, the country being a Jewish kingdom, but
>> I think as an example sentence it beats some of the alternatives!)
>>
>> Temberean, another scantily clad conlang from the West, has this for a
>> first sentence. ar skente skere swirkwo tlikwon; a cutting and witty jibe
>> (if you will kindly excuse my horrible pun), meaning "like a sharp knife in
>> soft flesh" and is said when a person relishes an often nefarious or
>> questionably moral activity.
>>
>> Nope. No "Jane likes dog" here!
>>
>
> Yes, those are nice examples.
>
> I recommend the contrary: start with poetry! Write a recipe or a prayer or
>>>> a snatch of song or a chapter of your people's foundational myth.
>>>>
>>> Yep - tho the very earliest writing does seem to have come about for the
>>> mundane reason of keeping, as soon as people realize writing is a great
>>> tool and begin to write _literature_ more often than not, it seems to to
>>> me, it is verse/poetry that precedes prose.  Think of the Epic of Gilgamesh,
>>> the Homeric Epics of the Greeks, the Vedic hymns etc.
>>>
>> True that. I don't think any but a very peculiar conlanger would want to
>> devise a conlang and for his first text make it a monthly expense ledger! I
>> think most of us aspire to use our conlangs in more communicative ways, and
>> thus tend to start out with sentences that are more narrative in nature.
>> Starting with poetry & literature is just so much more fun!
>>
>
> But very much so!  Indeed, I haven't yet seen a ledger in an artlang; most
> artlangers, I think, attain to write literature and poetry in their
> languages, and I am certainly not an exception.
>
> Your own people's foundation in myth in verse - now that's a thought!
>>>
>> In prose, I've worked on a couple, and in "translation" several. In
>> verse, none that I can recall!
>>
>
> I'd like to be able to produce good verse in Old Albic, but for that, I'd
> have to improve my proficiency with the language.  I am simply not there
> yet.
>
> I so often wish Tolkien's Silmarillion had been a verse epic in Quenya,
>>> instead of the (disappointing to me) posthumous publication by Christopher
>>> Tolkien  {sigh}.
>>>
>> Disappointing in what way? If I recall right, he (CJRT) set himself up as
>> custodian and setter-in-order of whatever his father had already written,
>> not a creator within his father's world. Isn't the published S text
>> basically JRRT's work as combed through and edited in scholarly fashion,
>> and not CJRT's own original writing?
>>
>
> Yep.  It is JRRT's work edited in scholarly fashion by CJRT.  What Ray
> apparently finds disappointing is that it is in prose; but some early verse
> versions exist (although in English, not in Quenya or Sindarin) and have
> been published posthumously by CJRT in the volume _The Lays of Beleriand_
> (History of Middle-earth vol. 3).  Yet, a verse rendition of the
> Silmarillion in Quenya or Sindarin would be something!
>
> Naturally, I think we share the wish that such things had been properly
>> done up by JRRT himself.
>>
>
> Sure.
>
> --
> ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
> http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
> "Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
>

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February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
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January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
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November 2005, Week 5
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October 2005, Week 5
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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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January 2004, Week 1
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November 2003, Week 3
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October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
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April 2003, Week 5
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April 2003, Week 2
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March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
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February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
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November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
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July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
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January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 3
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