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CONLANG  November 2015, Week 3

CONLANG November 2015, Week 3

Subject:

Re: 'A holistic approach to the fine art of grammar writing'

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:47:51 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (86 lines)

On 17/11/2015 13:12, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets wrote:
> On 15 November 2015 at 19:05, And Rosta  wrote:
>
>> Naturalist artlangers are likely to find interesting
>> this paper:
>>
>> van Driem, George. 2007. 'A holistic approach to the
>> fine art of grammar writing: The Dallas Manifesto'.
>>
>> http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007DallasManifesto.pdf
>>>
>>
>>  It's half a ranty manifesto that will chime with many
>> conlangers' prejudices, and half a study of
>> evidentiality in a Tibeto-Burman language.
>>
>>
> I've read the manifesto itself (keeping the other part
> for later).

I meant to read it - put it aside, and forgot.  Christophe's
email now means I shall be reading it this afternoon   :)

> I don't think it is "ranty" so much as exasperated for
> having to point out what should be obvious: that
> languages should be described in their own terms rather
> than force them into theoretical straitjackets that
> bring nothing to the table and only obfuscate or
> downright misrepresent linguistic phenomena; that even
> closely related structures in closely related languages
> will never be exact equivalents and that it's the
> linguist's job to recognise that and to correctly
> describe it; and that theoretical discussions are useless
> when they are based on misunderstood examples from
> underdescribed languages or on one's linguistic prejudice
> based on one's native language.

Yes, I agree that _all_ those things should be obvious to
any linguist worth the name.  I can, however, understand the
exasperation.

> Yes, the tone is angry. But anger alone doesn't
> disqualify someone when their arguments are sound, and
> these arguments are the soundest I've read in a long
> time. Anyone who's got at least some knowledge of
> non-Indo-European languages or, like us, has actually
> worked to create stuff from that difficult to grab
> matter that is language will see this person's arguments
>  resonate with them.

Good - I look forward to the resonating   :)

> It's not prejudice when it's argumented and based on
> actual facts. And yes, it's unashamedly anti-Chomsky and
> anti-Platonic. That's two positive points in my book :P.

... and in my book also    ;)

> And the most interesting part of the manifesto is that
> it pleads for a relatively traditional method of
> describing language: do reuse terminology for structures
> that are analogous to structures in other languages, so
> long as you treat terminology for what it should be: a
> set of labels that are useful but *must* be adapted based
> on language-specific data, rather than as a set of
> metalinguistic platonic concepts that somehow exist on
> their own. That's how I've always treated linguistic
> terminology, and it's served me very well.
>
> All in all, a very good read.

I sounds it - I really look forward to reading it.

Thanks, Christophe.

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"Ein Kopf, der auf seine eigenen Kosten denkt,
wird immer Eingriffe in die Sprache thun."
[J.G. Hamann, 1760]
"A mind that thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language".

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