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CONLANG  November 2015, Week 3

CONLANG November 2015, Week 3

Subject:

Re: A Model for Weighted Random Word Generation

From:

Garth Wallace <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:35:02 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (67 lines)

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On 17 November 2015 at 13:39, Shreyas Sampat <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed! I noticed some similar behavior, but nothing quite as extreme
>>> as that! It could just be bad luck with what comes out of the random
>>> number generator, but that does seem unlikely. I think I shall try
>>> generating running some really long output sets, and doing some
>>> statistical tests on them to see if maybe there is something wrong
>>> with the distribution selection algorithm.
>>>
>>
>> After making some significant edits to my input file, I'm still observing
>> the behavior where the generator chooses two templates and fills those in
>> each time I run it. Very strange!
>
> Definitely something up.
> Having produced a mostly-working proof of concept, though, I am now in
> the process of re-writing the whole from scratch with better planning
> so it'll be easier to share and maintain. That means no new features
> added in the last few days, but I'm almost done with the re-write, and
> then it'll be interesting to see if it has the same oddities in
> template selection.
> If it does, I might try swapping out a few different random number
> generators to see if I just have a bad source of randomness, or if
> there's actually something fundamentally wrong with my selection
> algorithm.
>
> Apart from just making it easier to maintain and continue adding new
> features on the second draft, I chose to do the rewrite in Go instead
> of Python, because that makes it really easy to create standalone,
> cross-compiled executables for every major platform, which should make
> it much more accessible to more conlangers ('cause you won't need a
> Python interpreter or know how to build from source to run it).
>
>>> I am pondering adding commands for minimum and maximum output lengths,
>>> but there are some annoying problems to be solved before that is
>>> practical.
>>> The most significant problem is ensuring that limits are satisfiable-
>>> i.e., if you specify a maximum length, can the software ensure that
>>> the grammar actually permits words shorter than that maximum? Most of
>>> the time, that really shouldn't be an issue, but if you end up making
>>> a mistake (and everybody makes mistakes, even if they're just typos),
>>> it would be really bad for the program to just sit there spinning
>>> forever, outputting nothing, while trying to satisfy impossible
>>> demands, rather than telling you that something is wrong and needs to
>>> be fixed.
>>>
>>
>> I think you're right about this, it's probably better to leave such
>> commands out. One alternative would maybe be to disallow recursive
>> definitions ($A -> $A $A etc) or definition loops, so that words of
>> unbounded length cannot occur. (I ended up setting up my input file this
>> way anyway.) That leaves the problem of detecting bad definition sets, but
>> (without knowing anything of the internals of the app) I suspect this might
>> be simpler than testing the output space against arbitrary constraints that
>> aren't structurally motivated. It also relieves the program from the
>> problem you describe below.
>
> Disallowing recursive definitions entirely I think would create more
> problems than it solves. It would be a good idea to check for
> recursive definitions that lack an "escape hatch", though- i.e.,
> things that can never produce a finite string.

Maybe a customizable recursion depth limit?

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