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CONLANG  November 2015, Week 3

CONLANG November 2015, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Comparison of Known Word Generators (was: Re: A Model for Weighted Random Word Generation)

From:

Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 19 Nov 2015 15:51:16 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (84 lines)

On 19 November 2015 at 12:46, Wm Annis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 2:39 AM, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Several of the authors of some of these programs are on the list, so
>> if any of you see something that is inaccurate, or would like to add
>> more detail to the comparative description of your tool, please do so
>> note.
>
> No, that's a very complete description of Lexifer.
>
> Apart from making computers do things for us, writing software is an
> excellent exercise which exposes (1) hidden knowledge or gaps in
> knowledge and (2) hidden assumptions.  (It is also excellent at
> exposing a company's org chart, but that's a hilarious tale for
> another time...)

Indeed it is!

> It would not have occurred to me to allow different distributions to
> be used, since Gusein-Zade matches data from natural languages better
> than anything except Yule, which I avoided due to its more complex
> parameterization (and it's only a *bit* better).
>
> Being able to assign individual rates for optional elements seems
> useful, but will require a more complex parser than regular
> expressions alone can provide.  So would the traditional 'CV(C)'
> notation for optionals.

Yup. It's not that bad though; I have an aversion to writing
paren-matching parsers by hand because it's just tedious and feels
like something the computer should have done for me already, but
Logopoeist already uses a custom recursive-descent parser rather than
regexes, so adding that feature should not be too much effort. (At
least as far as parsing the notation is concerned; designing and
implementing the semantics is something else entirely!)

> Having used several tools with optional
> elements like this (Awkwords, and, with trickery, Boris), I personally
> find it difficult to think about and control these sorts of complex
> word shape definitions.  Having to create more kinds of word shapes
> explicitly, as well as assigning their frequency explicitly, has
> generally given me better results more quickly.

That is useful UX knowledge. This, along with some of Shreyas's
feedback on using Logopoeist so far, is more of the kind of thing that
should probably be collected and compiled alongside the basic
comparison of functionality for different styles of word generators.


On 19 November 2015 at 14:20, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
[...]
> This is right, of course, Gleb is a marginal entry.  I won't elaborate on its generator methodology unless you ask, because from the user's point of view it's all irrelevant.
>
> (In my dreams, in the new version I've begun slowly, treaclewise working on, the software would generate a phonology and then let the user tinker with it, add or remove distinctions or gaps or whatever in the inventory or phonological rules, increase or decrease frequencies of classes of phonemes (even context-sensitively, sure), etc.  That's of course doubly irrelevant, though, you're not cataloguing the Conlang Software Library of Babel.)

Well, not right now I'm not. But that is kinda the goal of
conlang-software-dev. And as you can see, there is a distinct shortage
of interactive word generator options, so adding another one would
likely be useful!

For my own entry in that space (the Markov-chain model with results
filtered through a syllable-structure grammar), I have today
prototyped an incremental back-tracking Earley recognizer, which will
allow efficient generation of grammar-conforming strings from a Markov
model with guaranteed termination; this solves the problems associated
with the brute-force approach of generating a random string and then
checking after your done whether or not it matches, which results
either in risk of non-termination (if you get unlucky and just happen
to never generate a conforming string) or of confusing
non-deterministic (and not what you asked for) output lengths as
exhibited by Awkwords.

Fear not, though- the fact that I want to get this additional variety
of word generator done does not mean I won't get to implementing the
more advanced features of Logopoeist! There's actually a great deal of
overlap, since these two generators will both be able to use the same
input language; they approach it from opposite directions, with
Logopoeist generating templates from the grammar and then filling them
in based on conditional distributions, and the next one (whatever it
ends up being called) generating concrete output strings directly from
the conditional distributions, and then ensuring that they conform to
some parse.

-l.

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