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CONLANG  November 2015, Week 3

CONLANG November 2015, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Comparison of Known Word Generators (was: Re: A Model for Weighted Random Word Generation)

From:

Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 21 Nov 2015 15:01:43 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (79 lines)

On 21 November 2015 at 08:34, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>  I guess I could write a
>> general-purpose program to do that all in one go, given a word list, a
>> phoneme-weight file, and a gloss list with frequency weights.  Each
>> user would have to write a phoneme weight file listing the phonemes of
>> their language and the weight to be assigned each (probably in groups
>> to avoid repetition).
>
> I've got this half written already.  The format file is dead simple: a
> series of semicolon-separated rules, each consisting of a weight
> followed by one or more tokens, with optional # comments.  E.g., for
> one of my sketchlangs, it's:
>
> 1     a e i o u ;
> 0.5   m n ng ;  #nasals
> 0.1   p t k c ;    # plosives
> 0.25  sh s f jh zh z v r l j w ;
>
> Fed a list of words generated by Boris, it sorts them by weight.  Next
> step is to merge the sorted word list with a specified definition
> list, then to write help text and  documentation.

I may be over-thinking this, so feel free to totally ignore these
suggestions if you so desire.
But it seems to me that, while this is probably out-of-scope for what
you aim to accomplish with this program, it would be nice if the input
format also supported specifying weights for particular syllable
structure patterns, and/or particular word-grammar production rules,
which could then be used by a more sophisticated program with a
syllable-structure parser, and just ignored by yours.

Otherwise, if I or somebody else ever gets around to writing such a
more sophisticated program, we're going to have to come up with
another new different input format, which makes it less convenient to
mix-and-match programs.

Getting something that works is more important than getting something
that's perfect, though, so if future-proofing the input format like
that seems overly complicated right now, I guess don't worry about it.

On 21 November 2015 at 10:53, BPJ <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Den 2015-11-21 kl. 17:02, skrev Jim Henry:
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Fed a list of words generated by Boris, it sorts them by weight.  Next
>>> step is to merge the sorted word list with a specified definition
>>> list, then to write help text and  documentation.
>>
>>
>> How do y'all think the definition list should be formatted?  A
>> tab-delimited file with an estimated-frequency weight and a definition
>> on each line is what I used for my earlier project, but for this one
>> I'm thinking maybe just a pre-sorted list of definitions in order of
>> most to least frequently used.  The user could produce that list in a
>> number of ways, either manually ordering it, or by assigning weights
>> to each definition, sorting by weight with another program (sort(1) or
>> Excel or whatever) and then stripping out the weights column before
>> feeding it to my sorted-wordlist-merge program.
>
>
> I think it will be most user-friendly (not least for non-programmers and
> people stuck on Windows) to make it similar to the file assigning weights to
> phoneme classes and let the program do the sorting i.e. a weight, some
> whitespace and a definition on each line.

I agree. It might be nice to have two selectable input modes- assume
pre-sorted input with unspecified weights, vs. explicitly specified
weights in arbitrary order. But if you wanna pick one for simplicity,
I'm with BPJ.

Also, would you consider hosting this new program on
github.com/conlang-software-dev/ (probably in addition to on your own
website), in order to help start building the collection?

-l.

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