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CONLANG  December 2015, Week 2

CONLANG December 2015, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Phonetic/Phonotactic/Word inventory of a musical conlang

From:

And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 13 Dec 2015 22:46:22 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (96 lines)

I suspect this wouldn't satisfy Jon's criteria for musicality, i.e. the
audible form must satisfy certain purely musical constraints.

--And.
On 13 Dec 2015 12:27, "Logan Streondj" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> the most successful musical languages are the whistled languages,
> from-source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistled_language
>
> The basic idea being that vowels are base-tones and consonants are
> modifications of the base-tone typically following the F2 formant as can be
> seen on spectrograms.
>
> Silbo has an issue that it merges the lower vowels since it's formants
> don't reach into the whistle range.  My idea is to take the whole human
> range, and simply compress it so it fits in the whistle range.
>
> There is another issue in terms of limited phonemic inventory,
> typically they are considered to have "two to five vowels and four to nine
> consonant"
> so if you have a two vowel four consonant language should be safely
> whistleable.
>
> Sincerely,
> Logan
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 8:13 PM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > On 13 Dec 2015 00:34, "Alex Fink" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 12:27:08 +0000, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > >On 26 Nov 2015 13:14, "Jon Michael Swift" <
> [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > >wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> So you can see, the issue is not that there aren't enough phonemic
> > > >> possibilities; It's that there must be unusually complex limitations
> > in
> > > >> phonotactics and grammar to make it sound "musical." If you use
> modal
> > and
> > > >> tonal parameters to delineate the grammar of a discourse, you also
> set
> > a
> > > >> lot of limitations needed to make it sound musical. Nevertheless,
> I'm
> > not
> > > >> privy to the kind of calculations you might do to calculate the
> > potential
> > > >> word inventory of the language. Maybe it's an unnecessary
> calculation,
> > but
> > > >> I'm trying to figure out if I've set up a system that's big enough
> > that it
> > > >> can A) produce plenty of singable words B) Suffer enough limitations
> > to
> > > >> assign discrete meaning to various notes/pitch functions until it
> > sounds
> > > >> "pretty."
> > > >>
> > > >> Thoughts anyone?
> > > >
> > > >My advice would be to put aside phonological analysis and phonemes at
> > > >first, and instead establish an inventory of contrastive musical units
> > > >(that is, units that preserve musicality when combined). The inventory
> > > >needn't be closed, and the units needn't be atomic. This is in large
> > part
> > > >is what Moss did, I think.
> > >
> > > I agree, though it's not clear to me a priori that good
> freely-combinable
> > units have to exist.  Whatever inventory you end up with, there might be
> > enough combinatory restrictions on sequences of them that you'll have to
> > apply a bit of cleverness even to get started with And's way of
> proceeding,
> > perhaps identifying some of the units as alloforms of others, or some of
> > them as semantically-empty bridges, or whatnot.
> >
> > I completely agree, and was taking for granted that there might be
> radical
> > 'allomusemy', tho doubtless my reply to Jon would have been more useful
> if
> > I'd pointed that out, as you have.
> >
> > I don't know enough of music to be able to contribute to establishing an
> > inventory of musemes, but I'd certainly be interested in seeing and
> hearing
> > such an inventory and the discussion leading to it.
> >
> > --And.
> >
>

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