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CONLANG  December 2015, Week 4

CONLANG December 2015, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Miserére etc. (was:: Infinitive used as imperative in Ecclesiastical Latin)

From:

Claude Almansi <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 22 Dec 2015 16:20:45 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (66 lines)

On 12/22/15, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On 21/12/2015 23:33, Padraic Brown wrote:
>> Ray Brown wrote:
>>
>> On 20/12/2015 21:24, Padraic Brown wrote:
>>>> I'm sure Ray will correct me if I'm wrong
>>>
>>> No - the verb is second conjugation, not first. The
>>> usual form of the 2nd singular _indicative_ is
>>> "miseréris", but the form "miserére" is also found and
>>>  was regularly used as the singular imperative.
>>
>> And thank goodness! I guess we all stand corrected! I see
>> now there are three verbs with roughly the same meaning:
>> miserére, miseréri and miserári, one active and two
>> deponents. Should have checked A&G first!
>
> Only two verbs, really, since miserére and miseréri are the
> active & passive infinitives of the same verb, as I explain
> below.
>
> [MISERÉRE, MISERÉRI]
> The use of miserére as an active verb meaning "to have
> pity/mercy on" is strictly PRE-classical.  It is not found
> in that use in Classical Latin or in any post-classical Latin.
>
> In Classical Latin, miserére was used only _impersonally_
> with the meaning of "to move to mercy/pity."  Kids learning
> Latin at school are taught that the Latin for "I pity" is
> _me miseret_ (it moves me to pity ...), and that what causes
> one to be moved to pity is expressed by the genitive case,
> e.g. "I pity you" = _me tui miseret_.
>
> If the third petition of the Agnus Dei were in 'good'
> Ciceronian Latin, it would be:
> Agne Dei, qui peccata mundi tollis, te nostri misereat.
>
> _misereat_ is pres. subj.: "may it move you to have to have
> pity of us."
>
> But, it will be seen that a normal passive equivalent of _me
> miseret_ is _misereor_ (I am moved to pity).  Therefore it
> is perfectly good Classical Latin also to have:
> tui misereor = I am moved to pity/mercy  of you (i.e. I pity
> you; I have mercy on you).
>
> Thus, although I loosely referred to _miseréri_ as
> 'deponent', this is not strictly true; in Latin it is a passive.
>
> Also, it should be added, that tho in the Classical
> language, what moves one to pity is expressed normally by
> the genitive, we do find some examples of the dative being
> used.  In the Latin text of the Mass we find both!
>
> The absolution given by the priest after the penitential
> rite at the beginning of Mass begins:
> _Misereátur nostri omnípotens Deus_
>
> May Almighty God have mercy on us ..
> (Lit. May Almighty God be moved to pity of us), where
> _nostri_ is genitive.

Yes, but _Misereátur_ is a *passive* subjunctive: so here too, it is
_miseréri_ just as in the Agnus Dei. The 3rd person sing subjunctive
of _miserére_ would be _misereat_, no?

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