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CONLANG  December 2015, Week 5

CONLANG December 2015, Week 5

Subject:

Theory: More musiconlang phonology

From:

Jon Michael Swift <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:05:43 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (25 lines)

Alex Fink Wrote...
>What I had been advocating was not to take it for granted that the _note_ should be the basic combinatory unit ("phoneme"; it's probably best not to even say "phoneme" this early in the game, much less "vowel" or "consonant").  Trying to recover musicality from there is a task of whittling down far far too vast a list of sequences to something manań£able.  I'd compare it e.g. to trying to craft your conscript by starting with all possible black-and-white images of such and such size and throwing out the unsuitable ones.

>Deriving vocabulary from songs in the way Patrik suggested at least makes each word musical, but falls down at the junctures: just abruptly switching from one song to another will ruin musicality.  It might make a good source of borrowed words once you have a phonology, anyway.

I think that the right experiments will answer this. There are enough music types in the world that are tightly organized by sound that I could start translating phrases from them and combining them to see how long it would take to get to over-complexity.

I think the solution you're talking about lies somewhere on a spectrum, though I can also imagine that an entire language family would be needed to answer the question of "which is best?"

On one end, you adhere vocabulary strictly to both key and mode. Example; you take 50 North Indian Ragas. You assign them to instruments which prefer to play them. Then you bind the ragas to the keys of those instruments. You then proceed to transcribe phrases from each raga and assign meaning, developing the grammar as you go. In the end each word may be a pocket of cogency but you'll still be jumping about quite a bit between words, both in key and in scale type. Repair mechanisms would be needed to make it easier to speak, but you could organize a large amount of vocab this way and if you could limit which scales and keys were uses within a discourse, it could be made quite pleasant.

On the other end of the spectrum is something like Moss where it's all about intervals within a scale and the specifics of key and mode don't matter much. I think this would be difficult to organize in terms of separating words and in creating enough unique space to define vocab, but it would leave the most options to musicality. Therefore, I think a blending of the two techniques is in order.

I guess I tend to define notes as phonemes because I've done a lot of music theory and that's how I construct a music system. That being said, I haven't decided what the most important units of musical phrase construction are, though I have some good ideas.

My current thought is that many of the basic words of the language could be abstracted to any scale but that certain vocabulary would be bound to a specific Raga-type phrase, which would decline the rest of the surrounding words to its scale type. Also, I could us affixes to decline case and various other markings to create high word order variability, which would also allow for a lot of melodic freedom. I can imagine this being quite difficult, but music is hard anyway. The goal is to see if this makes it possible to do more with music, difficult or not.

>I don't have a good feeling either.  But if I were the one trying to develop this feeling, I might take an approach which was more holistic even than this reduction into "syllables".  

>I might start with a single line (or a passage of a couple lines, or whatever) of blues and start to systematically vary it in all the possible ways, so as to figure out all the possible minimal pairs in which it plays a part, or maybe all such minimal pairs that aren't too close to be distinguished from one another; perhaps some of these "minimal pairs" involve , to retain musicality or reinforce a subtle difference.  Then repeat this exercise for various other lines.  The result should be a rough-and-ready approximation to a paradigm of points of variation, and that would be the bedrock of your _phonology_.  Pulling out a system of (essentially) freely combinable units from this data can be a later stage.

>[In what is arguably an extremised form of this contrast -- many novice conlangers, following some template or another, seem to get the idea that "phonology" means 'phoneme inventory', and stands in contrast to e.g. "phonotactics".  Not so!  You seem to commit this usage yourself in one of your messages following this one.]

Guilty as charged. I've probably not been as careful as I should be. Nevertheless, I think this experiment sounds like a good one, though I'm struggling a bit with this concept of minimal pairs. You do get things like this quite freqeuntly in music styles since the musemes are so limited, but I have to decide what kind of minimal pairs I'm looking for. Are we talking purely in terms of syllable or tone inventory, or is there a cross-section with other factors like rhythm or ornaments/consonants? For example, a lot of licks in the blues are distinguished by rhythm as well as pitch. Some of the basic ones get used many ways, but many more complex ones get used in very specific ways rhythmically, and this can be exploited both with and without a steady pulse. This is an important experiment for me so I definitely have to nail this down.

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