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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  January 2016, Week 2

CONLANG January 2016, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Direction Association

From:

Jeffrey Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 14 Jan 2016 10:56:13 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (61 lines)

I figured someone else would have said this. In _The Hobbit_, it says
clearly that East is "up":

"On the Map the compass points are marked in runes, with East at the top,
as usual in dwarf-maps, and so read clockwise: E(ast), S(outh), W(est),
N(orth)."

(It's in the note just before chapter one.)


On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Padraic Brown <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> William Wright <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > I've noticed that, in English, "North" is associated with "up" and
> > "South" is associated with "down". This, and the ensuing train of
> > thought, raised a few questions:
> >
> > 1. Why is this? Is it just happenstance or is there a definite cause?
>
> Education, perhaps, is the root cause of this phenomenon. Maps,
> geography books and classroom globes all show Europe, Asia and
> North America -- (jingoism alert!) all the Important Countries (or
> rather, all the countries that produced maps, geography books,
> atlases and globes) at the top. Particularly on a globe. You've got
> to stand on your head to see Australia or South Africa or
> Antarctica.
>
> Jingoism aside, the orientation does kind of make sense: if you
> look a globe centered on the south pole, you'll find that most of
> Earth's land mass is up on the northern side -- Australia, the
> southern 2/3 of South America and southern third of Africa are
> "down" there, everything else is "up" here!
>
> > 2. Are there any examples of this in other nat-/conlangs?
>
> Maps in the Eastlands of The World are generally oriented towards the
> east, towards the Ocean of Sunrise, but east isn't associated with "up".
> The sky is "up", as even the most uneducated know well! Sunrise is
> before one, sunset behind, the nameless North is to the left and the
> Sunlands to the right. This orientation is not universal, and you do
> find north facing and south facing maps. Very few west facing maps,
> though.
>
> I don't think they have globes. Kind of odd that, really.
>
> > 3. Is there a pattern to how languages make these associations bewteen
> > directions? If so, why?
> > 4. Whether or not the former option of the latter question in 1 is
> > true, what might induce speakers of a language to do something like
> > this, in reality or in ficiton?
>
> Again, I would posit that education and a broad(er) perspective might
> lead to this kind of association.
>
> Another possibility is the location of the Pole Star. That might also lead
> to
> the association of up and north.
>

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