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CONLANG  January 2016, Week 3

CONLANG January 2016, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Fwd: Language Acquisition

From:

Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 15 Jan 2016 09:35:15 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (171 lines)

Having Yemoran children learn language the way our children do doesn't
seem unique. I was thinking they could be injected via knowledge
needle, making them born mute. Or maybe some type of herb in
combination with the needle. They can speak short paragraphs at three.

On 1/15/16, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Hi, what are some ways alien can acquire languages?
>
> We don't know because we've never met any aliens.  But I suppose the
> basic two ways humans acquire languages are immersion and formal study
> -- usually, with second languages, a combination of the two.
>
> Here are some excerpts from my work in progress on conlangers who are
> fluent in their conlangs:
>
> ===
>
> Implications from second-language acquisition research
>
> How does one acquire fluency in a language that no one else speaks?
> Stephen D. Krashen, a language acquisition linguist, writes:
>
> ".....The Comprehension Hypothesis claims that language acquisition
> does not happen when we learn and practice grammar rules. Language
> acquisition only happens when we understand messages."
>
> How if at all does this apply to a lone conlanger learning a language
> that barely exists yet, and which will probably have no other
> speakers? Clearly in order for the conlanger to "understand messages"
> written or spoken in their conlang, they must first create those
> messages; and to create the first such messages they have to
> consciously apply grammar rules. But it's not necessary, as most of us
> know by experience, to have all the grammar loaded into skill memory,
> or to thoroughly know all the words, in order to start creating text
> in the conlang, whether original or translated. This theory of
> language acquisition suggests that we are probably better off not
> trying to memorize the grammar rules of our conlangs per se, but
> rather to use them in creating text, and then let the rules soak in
> unconsciously while we re-read the texts many times. It also suggests
> that the themes we choose for original writing or translation into our
> conlangs should be matter that's interesting enough we won't mind
> re-reading it over and over. That may seem too obvious to need saying;
> but it does suggest that writing connected continuous text — whether
> stories or diary entries or what have you — is more likely to help us
> acquire our conlangs than just writing example sentences illustrating
> usage of particular words and various points of grammar; and also,
> that it's the re-reading of these texts, rather than the writing of
> them, that helps most in learning the language.
>
> For acquiring the spoken forms of our conlangs, this theory of
> language acquisition would suggest listening to recorded speech over
> and over; but to listen to such recordings, we need to first create
> them, which seems to imply that we need to learn to speak the conlang
> before we can learn to speak it. The fact that a few conlangers with
> no one else to speak their conlang with have actually learned its
> spoken form with a reasonable degree of fluency suggests that this
> paradox is not, in fact, as binding as it first appears. For one
> thing, it's possible to rehearse reading from a written text several
> times before recording it, and then, perhaps, to edit out any
> remaining disfluencies with sound editing software; thus one can get
> clean recordings of a hypothetical version of oneself who is more
> fluent in the conlang than one actually is as yet. I suspect, however,
> given the answers people gave to my question about listening
> comprehension of recordings they've made, and to the question about
> people's methods for learning their conlang, that most conlangers who
> have become fluent in the spoken form of their conlangs did so
> primarily by talking to themselves aloud, at first hesitantly and
> disfluently, and gradually more confidently and fluently over time.
>
> It also seems possible that this language acquisition theory describes
> an effective method for the majority of people, but that this method
> may not be the most effective for a minority with different learning
> styles; perhaps conlangers are likely to be in this minority for whom
> conscious study of grammar is relatively more effective than for most
> people.
>
> John Schumann's acculturation hypothesis says that fluent
> second-language acquisition tends to happen as a by-product of
> successful acculturation, that is, social and psychological adjustment
> to an adopted culture. He was apparently focusing primarily on
> immigrants who are trying to adapt to the culture of their adopted
> country and acquire its language at the same time. Can we apply this
> to the learning of conlangs? Are people whose conlang is associated
> with a culture within a well-developed fictional world, and who
> strongly identify with this culture, more likely to become fluent in
> their conlangs than those whose language has no imagined culture
> attached? Is acculturation a causal factor for fluency in itself, or
> only by way of giving people strong motivation to use the target
> language more often?
>
> Elizabeth Barrette wrote in response to my survey:
>
> When I make a concerted effort to learn a language ..... [I] [c]hoose
> a name to be the part of myself who will be a native speaker in this
> language.
>
> Tony Harris wrote:
>
> I think it was more how I immersed myself in the culture and
> "heritage" of the Alurhsa people that caused me to immerse myself in
> the language as well. ..... I have come to identify "spiritually" in
> some way with the Alurhsa world-view [or] ethos.
>
> These quotes suggest that strong identification with the conlang's
> associated culture may be helpful for some conlangers, but I can't yet
> draw any strong conclusions about this from the survey response data.
> Comparing the more and less fluent groups of conlangers, I don't see
> any strong correlation with whether their conlang is associated with
> an imagined world or culture; if there is a correlation, it seems to
> be negative but weak. However, I plan to try to find out more when I
> do my follow-up survey. I will need to ask more specific questions
> about how thoroughly developed people's imaginary worlds are and how
> strongly they identify with them, and control for several other
> variables, because I suspect that conlangs associated with an imagined
> world are liable to be more difficult on average than those that are
> not; making a language naturalistically plausible and and making it
> easy to learn are more or less contradictory goals. I started desiging
> gjâ-zym-byn as a personal language with no associated fictional
> culture partly because the more or less naturalistic artlangs I had
> been working on were too irregular to be easy to learn, and it seems
> that I'm not alone in this; at least five of the twelve respondents
> who answered yes to the question "Can you speak spontaneously in your
> conlang at conversational speed?" have auxlangs, engelangs or
> non-naturalistic artlangs with an unusual degree of regularity or
> simplicity.
>
> Is it possible to compare the results of my conlang fluency study, or
> of any future study along these lines, with previous studies of how
> people learn or acquire natural languages? The problems with comparing
> the results of these studies are severe. Most natural language
> acquisition studies focus on a group of people learning the same
> language — ideally, all with the same native language, or all learning
> the target language in the same place at the same time — and make
> observations on the order in which they tend to learn the target
> language's various features, what features give them most trouble, and
> what factors (demographic, psychological, etc.) correlate strongly
> with the learners' rate of learning and degree of success. A conlang
> fluency study has to deal not only with diversity of learners, but
> extreme diversity in the target languages and in the conditions under
> which the learners are studying them; further, the researcher is
> unlikely to be knowledgeable about most of the languages involved in
> the study, and thus has to rely on self-reporting for data on how well
> the respondents have mastered particular features of their conlang.
> There are whole subfields of second-language acquisition study whose
> findings are impossible to apply if the researcher doesn't know the
> target language being studied. In short, I doubt I will be able to
> compare results from this study directly with results of natlang
> acquisition studies; but I hope to come a little closer with a
> follow-up study, consisting of additional in-depth questions sent to
> the most fluent respondents to my earlier survey.
>
> --
> Jim Henry
> http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
> http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
>


-- 
Pen Name:
Mellissa Green
Twitter
@abluegreenunivs


website

www.abluegreenuniverse.com

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June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
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May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
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February 2006, Week 1
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December 2005, Week 5
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December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
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October 2005, Week 5
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October 2005, Week 1
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September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
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June 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 1
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November 2004, Week 3
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June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
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June 2004, Week 1
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April 2004, Week 5
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February 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 1
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November 2003, Week 3
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September 2003, Week 1
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August 2003, Week 1
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July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
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April 2003, Week 5
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April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
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November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
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February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
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April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 3
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February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 5
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June 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 3
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February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
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January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
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November 1999, Week 1
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December 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 3

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