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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  January 2016, Week 3

CONLANG January 2016, Week 3

Subject:

Re: oddball language

From:

BPJ <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Thu, 21 Jan 2016 21:11:53 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (114 lines)

My accent of Swedish has a vowel inventory which is similar

i   u\  u
e   8   o
E   3\
    a   Q

with [@] or [3] for unstressed e/E (which don't contrast when fully
unstressed.

If you don't count /a/ as central it's even more weird.

/bpj

torsdag 21 januari 2016 skrev J S Jones <[log in to unmask]>:

> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:56:22 -0500, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:08:57 +1100, A Walker Scott <
> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> >>I have returned, but under a new name -- A. Walker Scott.  I've been a
> >>member here for decades under my real name, Adam Walker, but decided to
> >>switch to my nom de plume, so as to give this name a bigger footprint on
> >>the web.
> >>
> >>Anyway here is a phonetic inventory on which I'm eliciting comment:
> >>
> >>Vowels:
> >>i  }  u
> >>
> >>e 8 o
> >>  @
> >> {  6  O
> >
> >Nothing oddball yet!
> >
> >>all of i, e, {, 8, @, 6, o, O may be nasalized
>
> I thought that the 4 central vowels were a little odd, especially with
> only 3 each of front and back, and also the large number of nasal vowels.
>
> Jeff
>
> >Interesting that /i/ doesn't pattern with the other high vowels, but easy
> to think of explanations for.
> >
> >>Consonants:
> >>m  n  N
> >>p   t   k
> >>mb nd Ng
> >>s
> >>v\  j
> >>r
> >>l
> >>w
> >
> >Still not oddball... the /v\/ vs. /w/ contrast is perhaps a narrow one,
> but that little amount of spice certainly doesn't hurt here.
> >
> >>Permissible consonant clusters:
> >
> >Let me line these up in columns.
> >
> >>mw, my,     mn
> >>    ny
> >>    Ny
> >>pw, py, pl, pn, pt (realized as pr)
> >>bw, by, bl
> >>tw, ty
> >>dw
> >>    ky, kl
> >>        gl
> >>lv\
> >
> >/lv\/ looks out of place, but maybe it came from /lw/ or /v\l/ or such,
> so no sweat.  /pt/ lines up I guess with /mn/ and /pn/, but the real
> question is what sense a cluster "realised as [pr]" can be said to be
> synchronically /pt/, especially when /r/ is a phoneme.  Is this just
> diachronics, or is there some synchronic alternation /p/ + /t/ > [pr]?
> >
> >And we can't neglect to consider the gaps.  That at /tl dl/ is totally
> normal; that at /kw gw Nw/ is piquant but might well result from early
> uniphonation of these groups changing them into something else.  That at
> /dj gj/ is, I'll give it to you, oddball -- there might have been a
> palatalisation that only affected voiced stops but that's a pretty weird
> condition on it, offhand (unless /j/ happened to absorb /dj gj/ in a way
> that lacked a voiceless parallel).  That at /nw/ is also oddball.
> >
> >>Syllables may be:
> >
> >Reordering and respacing:
> >
> >>  V
> >>  VV
> >>  VC
> >> CV
> >> CVV
> >> CVC
> >> CVVC
> >>CCV
> >>CCVC
> >
> >And that is the oddest ball of the lot!  Despite what some word
> generation tools etc. might lead one to think, structural dependencies
> between onset and coda like this are uncommon.  And if there is one
> particular thing that might be overstepping the line of plausibility it is
> the absence of *VVC: what reason on earth could there be to specially
> preclude (C)VVC when the onset happens to be zero?
> >
> >Alex
>

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