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CONLANG  January 2016, Week 4

CONLANG January 2016, Week 4

Subject:

Re: THEORY: Yes-no Or Questions

From:

Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 23 Jan 2016 15:22:36 -0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (162 lines)

2016-01-22 20:26 GMT-02:00 Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>:

> I don't buy "yes/no" as inclusive anything.  The whole point is that there
> are two mutually exclusive options.
>
> The English conjunction "or" is almost always exclusive, which is why lists
> of the form "A or B" have to have an "or both" added if the alternation is
> intended to be inclusive.
>

Assuming that English "or" works the same as Portuguese "ou", I guess being
inclusive or exclusive is irrelevant in cases such as the following:

-- You'll have no problem in India if you speak English or Hindi.
-- You can pay in dollars or euros.


>
> Incidentally, yes/no questions are sometimes called "polar questions",
> which might help with the Googling.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 5:17 PM, William Wright <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Can any languages distinguish "yes-no or questions" from
> "choose-an-option
> > or questions"?
> >
> > Do you understand my question?
> >
> > Here an example:
> >
> > -- Do you want chocolate or strawberry?
> > -- Yes, I do.
> >
> > The question here (by my analysis) comes down more to the types of
> > "or" that a language has/distinguishes between. The "yes/no" type "or"
> > is "inclusive" (describing the entities listed as collectively, though
> > not necessarily simultaneously, included; analogous to the symbol ∨ in
> > mathematical logic notation, I believe). The "choose-an-option" type
> > "or" is "exclusive" (describing the situation in which one, but not
> > both, of the entities is included; analogous to the symbol ⊕ in
> > mathematical logic notation). English actually has the capability of
> > expressing this distinction using "either...or..." to communicate the
> > latter (for which reason it is often assumed that the former is meant
> > when only "or" is used). I am unfamiliar with any (natural) languages
> > that make a distinction more closely resembling that made in
> > mathematical logic. Some of my languages do, though.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 AM, Zach Wellstood <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > > On Jan 22, 2016 9:25 AM, "Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Also, many languages have a simple particle to turn a statement into a
> > >> yes-or-no question, while choose-an-option questions may be
> constructed
> > in
> > >> a different manner.  For example, Mandarin 吗 *ma* is only for yes-no
> > >> questions (unlike Japanese か *ka*, which is also used for other types
> of
> > >> questions).
> > >>
> > >
> > > Yes, Mandarin also has two words equivalent to 'or', 还是 hai2shi4 is for
> > > questions (amongst other things) and 或(者) huo4zhe3 is for non
> > interrogative
> > > statements.
> > >
> > > Ni xiang chi qiaokeli HAISHI caomei?
> > > You want eat chocolate OR strawberry?
> > >
> > > Wo xiang chi qiaokeli HUOZHE caomei.
> > > I want eat chocolate OR strawberry.
> > >
> > > (Actually my grammaticality judgements for huozhe/haishi are iffy
> because
> > > they have other meanings and stuff going on...)
> > >
> > > Zach
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:00 AM, B. R. George <
> > >> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > A number of languages have a word that can only be used for 'or' in
> > >> > choose-an-option questions but not in yes-or-no questions. Often
> it's
> > > still
> > >> > possible under some circumstances to ask an ambiguous question of
> this
> > > kind
> > >> > under some circumstances, so there's not a perfect clean
> distinction,
> > > but
> > >> > there's still something that does what it sounds like you're looking
> > > for.
> > >> >
> > >> > One well-known example involves the words 'tai' and 'vai' in
> Finnish.
> > >> > Something like this also occurs in Egyptian Arabic.
> > >> >
> > >> > Here are a few academic papers that include relevant data:
> > >> >
> > >> > http://septentrio.uit.no/index.php/nordlyd/article/download/33/32
> > >> >
> > >> > http://escholarship.org/uc/item/90q7m4vz
> > >> >
> > >> > Cheers,
> > >> > B
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Leonardo Castro <
> > [log in to unmask]
> > >>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Can any languages distinguish "yes-no or questions" from
> > >> > "choose-an-option
> > >> > > or questions"?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Do you understand my question?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Here an example:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > -- Do you want chocolate or strawberry?
> > >> > > -- Yes, I do.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Sorry if there is a widely known linguistic concept for that
> > > distinction
> > >> > > that I ignore for not being a linguist. (Some years ago, I told a
> > > British
> > >> > > linguist about Tupi-Guarani inclusive-exclusive 1PL distinction,
> > > thinking
> > >> > > that I was telling something very unusual and interesting...)
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Até mais!
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Leonardo
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sincerely,
> >          William S. Wright
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
>

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