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CONLANG  February 2016, Week 1

CONLANG February 2016, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Rokhos Sound Changes

From:

Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:46:00 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (115 lines)

On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 20:46:39 -0800, Evan Palley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Nasals:   m̥ m       n̥ n       ɲ       ŋ
>Plosives: p b pʰ    t d tʰ     c ɟ   k g kʰ
>Fricatives: f v      ð s s:               ɣ
>Liquids:             l̥ l r̥ r
>Glides/Apprximants:           j     ʍ w
>
>So right off the bat here you see some weird things. For one thing,
>gemination is only phonemic in the one phoneme /s:/, which I know is
>weird, but I wanted a second sibilant phoneme to play around with.

I like your taste!  Idiosyncratic but quite believable, IMO.  There are various places the /s s:/ contrast might've come from in the pre-proto-language, like /z s/ or /s s_h/ or /s c_h/ or /s/ vs. /j_0/ in some order.

Some Caucasian languages have fortis fricatives that are transcribed as geminates though they're not phonologically double, so e.g. they can occur word-initially, participating in constrasts like /sa/ vs. /s:a/.  Is is that kind of thing that your /s:/ is?

>/l̥/ can be pronounced as [ɬ], but
>there's no voicing assimilation yet with the few consonants that come
>as a coda.

I wouldn't expect the contrast of /l r/ vs. /l_0 r_0/ to be stable long in the coda.  Is voicing assimilation to come?

>For vowels:
>
>High: i i:            u u:
>Mid:      e e:  o o:
>Low:          a a:
>Rising diphthongs:
>ea /e̯a/
>eā /e̯a:/
>oa /o̯a/
>oā /o̯a:/
>Falling Diphthongs:
>eo /eo̯/
>ēo /e:o̯/
>ie /ie̯/
>īe /i:e̯/

Do I smell Old English influence?

>Phonotactics are (C)V(L) or (C)D, where (C) is any consonant, V is a
>vowel, L is any of / l r l̥ r̥ m n ɲ ŋ ð /, and D is a diphthong (long
>or short). This means that syllables with diphthongs cannot have
>codas.

Place assimilation of coda nasals is another thing that I'd expect to happen sooner or later, with a reduced coda inventory like that.  Come to think of it, also collapse of place distinctions in nasals word-finally, which you've begun to do with the confusion of /J/ and /N/ but which could continue beyond that.

>>>kʰ -> kx / #_ || _V(C)V[+stress]
>>>tʰ -> ts / #_ || _V(C)V[+stress]
>
>>So in initial syllables, or immediately pretonic open syllables.  What do these have in common? >If it were the stressed syllable that were targeted I would interpret it as some kind of fortition, but that doesn't seem so likely here.
>
>I reasoned it as, the way stress works in Pan-Yael, it's more like a
>pitch-accent sort of system where each syllable from the beginning of
>the word until the stressed syllable becomes gradually more stressed,
>with the 'stressed' syllable being the forte and everything after it
>being very unstressed (it's usually near the end of the syllable
>anyway). Any suggestions on how to improve that?

Your realisation of the pitch accent makes sense, but pitch accent is unlikely to cause segmental changes by itself.  (After all, it's basically tone.)

Now, the realisation of the Pan-Yael stress might consist not only of pitch accent but of other cues accompanying it.  "Stronger" realisation of aspirates, that turns into affrication, could be one of the subsidiary features reinforcing the stress; but in that case, the conditioning for the affrication should be being in the stressed syllable, not the one immediately before.  

You might be able to get more or less your desired outcome by an ordered sequence of changes: first the affrication happens conditioned by the current location of stress, and second pitch accent shifts one syllable right, e.g. because the fall from stressed=high to unstressed=low that occupied the beginning of the original posttonic syllable came to be perceived as more salient than the pitch peak itself.  (My understanding is that it's more common for pitch accent to shift left that way, but this isn't a forte of mine).  

If you want affricates to phonemically split from aspirated stops, you could help achieve that by having the stress shift be only conditional so that the conditioning of affrication gets unclear, or by adding extra stress-shift rules.  (Even complete rebuildings-from-scratch of stress systems are not rare.)

>>>pʰ -> f / V_V
>>>     -> p / #_
>
>>Is that meant to be parallel to the above change, with subsequent different decay of the transitional *[pf] in different places (or maybe failure to produce it)?  That's what I'd expect; but the environments don't exactly line up.  
[...]
>It was meant to be
>parallel to the above change, but I'm not sure exactly how I want it
>to work out - I'm open to suggestions.

You have some latitude.  I'd suggest positing two independent changes: one [p_h] > [pf)] under the same conditions as the other stops, with [pf)] later simplifying, and another change leniting [p_h] under some other circumstances.  (The latter lenition would probably be to [pf)] if that existed at the time, and to [f] if not.)

>ɲ -> ŋ / #_
>   -> n / _#
>ŋ -> ɲ / V_V
>
>Basically what I was going for here was a merger of /ŋ/ and /ɲ/ into
>one sort of archiphoneme /N/ which can be realized in different ways.
>It's neutralized to [n] in the coda (and merges with /n/), is realized
>as [ŋ] word initially and [ɲ] word finally. I was considering having
>it assimilate in place to the following consonant if it's in the coda,
>too, but I'm not sure yet.

The merger is good, but I don't see the motivation for the split [N] initially, [J] internally.  [N] finally, [J] nonfinally (in onset) would be better, because it'd be reflecting the coda vs. onset distinction.  And yeah, not having /J N/ neutralised in coda under these conditions would be extremely weird.

I suppose you don't want to consider rules like [N] near back vowels and [J] near front vowels.

>>And other long vowels remain?
>
>Yep! They will be gone after the next era of changes :)

Neat.  More or less following the 'vowel treadmill' then (should I name Labov in connexion with it?) -- long vowels tend to tense and rise, short ones to lax and fall; high vowels tend to shorten, low ones to lengthen.  

Unless the length contrast disappears outright soon, I'd expect gaps at [i: u:] to be filled sharpish by something raising into them.  Especially [i:e)] > [i:] would seem an inevitability, if /i:e)/ wasn't already gone.

And hm, the 'treadmill' also seems to say that it'd be more believable than what you've done to posit that [i: u:] > [i u] unconditionally while at the same time _short_ [i u] undergo the height dissimilation.  I'm imagining the mechanism for the dissimilation being first [i u] of whichever length > [I U], and then [I U] are interpreted as lower than a following high vowel but higher than a following something else, and adjusted to suit.  Well, if that is the mechanism, it's short [i u] which are far more likely to become [I U].

>>>a  -> ə / [-stress]
>>>    -> a / _(C)V[+stress]
>
>>Why do you write the second rule, [a] becomes [a]?
>
>Basically, I was clarifying that /a/ does not turn to [ə] if it is
>immediately pretonic.

Ah, yet another reason to suspect the stress might have moved right one syllable.  But also, yet another thing which pitch accent by itself isn't liable to do.

Alex

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February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
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October 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
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March 2005, Week 1
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January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
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November 2004, Week 3
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November 2004, Week 1
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October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
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October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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August 2004, Week 5
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August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
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February 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
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December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
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November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
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October 2003, Week 1
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August 2003, Week 1
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June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 3
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June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
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April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
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May 2002, Week 3
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April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
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September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
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July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 3
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February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
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November 1999, Week 2
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April 1999, Week 1
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
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November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
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September 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 3

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