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CONLANG  March 2016, Week 3

CONLANG March 2016, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Ideals of concultures vs. those of their authors (was: Essence vs. state copulas (was: Without Genitive case))

From:

Melroch <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 20 Mar 2016 17:16:27 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (121 lines)

That's a bit different from what I and many other conculture builders do in
that your language apparently *is* fanfic in a sense. If I'm not mistaken
you created it to fit into an already existing conculture and the fan
culture surrounding it. In that scenario it makes sense to be neutral so as
to not offend existing expectations, notions and canon.

I have kind of experienced that in that I once wrote a text in Quenya which
was set in our contemporary world rather than Tolkien's fantasy world and
there were some really negative reactions. I have made the rather odd
experience that people are interested in coining words for more or less
modern technical inventions like telephones, automobiles and trains, but
not in texts using those coinages, or in coinages for other more or less
modern concepts which they perceive as alien to Tolkien's world or to
Tolkien's ideals as they suppose those to have been.

Here I was however commenting on And's remark that there seemed to be a
difference between the philosophical views Jörg expresses as his own and
those he ascribes to his conculture, which led me to reflect on the
relaition between the ideals prevalent *within* a conculture and those of
its creator, mentioning my own Sohlshan conculture as an example of the
opposite. After posting I realized that there of course is a tradition of
concultures which are at odds with their authors' ideals and meant to
reflect critically on our own culture by so being. The various cultures
Swift let Gulliver visit are perhaps the earliest modern example, but
Lucian of Samostata was into the same business in Antiquity. Among early
contemporary fantasy cultures Burroughs's come to mind but the examples are
multiple. Actually there is a shortage of concultures which are simply
morally and philosophically complex like our own reality. I'm trying to
make Sohlshan culture one. It in no way started out that way. Rather it
started out as a teenager's rather unreflecting Tolkien emulation, complete
with Ork analogues! However at least some of the 'Good Guys' soon became
morally ambiguous, reflecting the conflicts I was experiencing in my
reality.

I've still not figured out whether there would be a place for a concept
like 'democracy' in Sohldar or Middle-earth. The phenomenon certainly
exists in the latter, Ent politics being a consensus democracy.

/bpj
Den 20 mar 2016 16:01 skrev "Nina-Kristine Johnson" <[log in to unmask]
>:

> Daya!
>
> With my language, I tend to avoid creating a *con-culture* or writing my
> own fan-fiction pieces using the language. (I do do it, but it's
> different...I make audio and video demonstrations of the language in use
> for the more studious types, but sometimes I wind up writing a screenplay
> for a 1 hour and 42 minute fan film with several scenes in Ehenív).
>
> This is because my language is very popular with *fan-fiction* authors
> (Anyway, those who do write about the culture that was already created by
> Nintendo, Ltd and choose to use the language in their work). I want to
> remain *neutral* so that if the author who uses it for their piece has
> their own interpretation: they don't have mine to contend with, therefore
> making the language *unappealing*.
>
> Because it is their piece: as the *neutral party who just created the
> language* I feel *my opinions* and hypotheses on the culture of the tribe
> should not be there.* Hypothesi non-grata*,.
>
> However, slang and terms of endearment: I basically go with *speculation
> *based
> on what I know of the culture. But, this stuff was only created for those
> who are writing pieces and the author literally asks me what a *good term
> for 'sweetie'*is.
>
> On another note: Gerudo culture is very interesting. So much so, there are
> people who are demanding they come back in the next *Legend of Zelda *game.
> Nintendo brings back *other* races from around Hyrule, frequently...why not
> the Gerudo? (not talking about Ganondorf and his multiple game appearances
> or ancestors/descendants). Of course, *fan theories* mixed with some
> official lore will tell you why they don't.
>
> Tisala'e!,
> Kristine
>
> On 20 March 2016 at 07:53, Melroch <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Is a conculture generally assumed to be a simple megaphone for its
> author's
> > views, such that the conculture's mainstream ideology and values coincide
> > with the author's? While such an expectation would be understandable it
> > would also be unduly limiting. While there are those in Sohlshan society
> > who express my views those are on the fringe of that society -- in the
> case
> > of the hermit sages even physically so. If the authorities realized how
> > much the sages are at odds with their own values and beliefs they would
> > probably seek them out and do some very cruel things to them! In fact I
> > would not want to spend a single day among the Sohlshan even if I had the
> > mixed blessing of living among the more privileged. A conculture which
> were
> > my ideal society would simply not offer the same narrative opportunities.
> > That said it might be an edifying experiment to try to construct my ideal
> > culture to the extent that I know what it would be like, in the sense
> that
> > it would expose problematic spots in my ideals. All real cultures have
> > their conflicts, contradictions and problems, as well as things which
> seem
> > wrong to members of other cultures, and I firmly believe that a well
> > designed conculture should as well. It would be rather boring otherwise!
> > Den 20 mar 2016 11:01 skrev "And Rosta" <[log in to unmask]>:
> >
> > > On 19 Mar 2016 16:03, "Jörg Rhiemeier" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > What's more, these verbs have given rise to two philosophical terms:
> > > _asa_ (from the aorist of _sa_; in Old Albic, the aorist is used for
> > gnomic
> > > statements) and _tha_. The _asa_ of an entity is the sum of those
> > > properties that make out its essence and idenity, while the _tha_ is
> the
> > > sum of the accidental features that may change without affecting its
> > > essence or identity.
> > >
> > > So although you yourself are not a platonist, the Elves are, it
> appears.
> > >
> > > --And.
> > >
> >
>

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