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CONLANG  May 2016, Week 5

CONLANG May 2016, Week 5

Subject:

Re: conlangs as model languages (was: Re: Lighting Some Flames: Towards conlang artistry

From:

Pete Bleackley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 31 May 2016 18:48:34 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1 lines)

While the existence of a language implies a mapping between ideas and their expression in the speaker's mind, no such mapping has been explicitly described for any natural language: nor am I aware of any useful consensus on how such a thing may be done. 

However, at LCC6, Jim Hopkins said something in Itlani that Tony Harris wasn't sure how to translate, so Tony asked a question in Itlani, and Jim answered it in Itlani. 

Pete Bleackley
The Fantastical Devices of Pete The Mad Scientist - http://fantasticaldevices.blogspot.com
Emily Semantic Recommendation - https://emily-petebleackley.rhcloud.com

-----Original Message-----
From: And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tue, 31 May 2016 17:23
Subject: conlangs as model languages (was: Re: Lighting Some Flames: Towards conlang artistry

On 30 May 2016 at 16:31, Padraic Brown <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> As far as judging a conlang goes, I believe the difficulty comes not so
> much from its fluidity (which I agree exists, very few conlangs ever
> achieve that rarified state of "completion"), but from the fact that
> glossopoesy as art is an order of magnitude more basic than writing a play
> or composing an oratorio.
>
> Consider: when Verdi wrote an opera, did he create the concept of opera,
> or did he create the system of Western art music? No, he simply worked
> within an already established medium. Same with painters as different as
> Michaelangelo, Bosch and Picasso. Their basis is the artful application of
> pigments upon surfaces.
>
> Consider: when one of us creates a language, we're not putting pigment on
> surface or writing yet another concerto. A glossopoet, each time he
> discovers or creates a new conlang is creating a whole new *system*, a
> whole new *medium*. Our "already established medium" is an order of
> magnitude more fundamental -- it is (essentially) "human language capacity"
> itself  from which we devise a novel mode of expression.
>
> The equivalent in music to glossopoesy would be the creation of a novel
> scale and possibly a harmonic system to go with, and also the fabrication
> of one or more musical instruments capable of playing within this novel
> musical system. Furthermore, it would also involve the creation of a novel
> approach to music -- what ìs musical in this new system? What is nòt
> musical? And all of this before we ever write a single note of actual music
> on paper!
>

If conlangers really were creating languages, then your characterization of
glossopoesy would be right. But I have come to think that Jeffrey Henning's
term 'model languages' (which are to languages as model railways are to
railways) is apter for what conlangs are. If I build a model cathedral with
plasticene, you don't laud me for having built a cathedral (much tho you
may laud me for having built a model cathedral). My reasons for thinking
that conlangs fall short of being languages, or at least never escape being
model languages, are these:

1. Every published conlang is a non-working model [or almost every -- see
(3)]. No conlang's published documentation is complete enough for the
conlang to be usable (as a language, mapping between thought and
perceptibilia). Since many conlangs are used, they are of course usable in
some sense, but what happens is that the conlang is a sketch of parts of a
language, and the users call on their tacit knowledge of natural language
to complete the sketch into a working model. The conlanger has created the
sketch, not the working model.
2. Conlangs lack the richness, the depth, the complexity, the fullness of
natlangs; they are miniature models of natural languages.
3. While a working model is achievable (and indeed I aspire to produce most
of one erelong), the workingness is easier to achieve, the simpler and more
rudimentary, and so model-like, it is. Of conlangs I know of, Unlws is
probably closest to being a working model in its documentation.
4. The criterion of having a speech community is oft cited as criterial for
elevating a conlang to full languagehood, but I think that's neither
necessary nor sufficient. I'll leave to another discussion -- one that's
been had many times before -- why it's not necessary. As for why it's not
sufficient, used conlangs are as described under (1); they are more like
semi-consciously devised pidgins.

--And.

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