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CONLANG  May 2016, Week 5

CONLANG May 2016, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Klingon's school, was: Lighting

From:

"Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 31 May 2016 22:35:24 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (60 lines)

The main goals of Klingon were to (1) sound alien to but (2) be
pronounceable by... Anglophones. Sure, it could have been made more exo-,
but some of the readings we got on TNG were pretty horrid as it is (e.g.
[ji: 'haɹ kwoʊ] for *yIHarQo'* /jɪxar'qXo?/  "Don't believe him!",
subtitled "He lies!").

If your goal is to create an exolang to out-exo all others, you should
probably not target a production involving actual human actors having to
speak it.

On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 8:07 PM, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Tue, 31 May 2016 15:48:51 +0200, Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> >I don't know what name to assign to the style represented
> >by Klingon, but it is IMHO not naturalistic and AFAIK not diachronic,
> >either.
>
> This doesn't help name the style; but what with the Axanar case, I found
> myself reading some Klingon material recently, and it reinforced an opinion
> of mine.  I'll give you that Klingon's construction is not diachronic.  But
> as far as naturalism, I think that the wày in which Klingon is not
> naturalistic is basically wholly in the direction of being more model-like
> by virtue of being simpler (And's point 3 from the models thread).  It is
> not very unnaturalistic in exhibiting, as it were, primary features that
> natlangs don't exhibit, where by a "primary feature" I mean the sort of
> thing that WALS might track, as opposed just to ways of restating the idea
> of being assembled from too few too smooth pieces (counting irregularities
> or whatnot).  Or to say it another way -- whatever Klingon's merits as a
> naturalistic conlang, it's no good as an _exolang_, if the goal of an
> exolang is to be noteworthily exo-.  Its self-presentation, its mythos,
> dòes hold that it's all alien and weird, but as far as I can tell it
> doesn't really walk the walk.
>
> ["But it's OVS!" ... so, it has objects, verbs, and subjects?]
>
> ["But the phonology! It looks like it was constructed by dartboard!"
> Well, I can't lòok at it but I start generating reasons how it could very
> easily have gotten the way it is from a much less gappy predecessor by
> reasonable attested processes.  The palatoalveolars /tS dZ/ are clearly the
> *velars, pushed forward by the uvulars, just as has happened to both in
> rural Palestinian Arabic (at separated times).  /qX/ will be the *voiceless
> (aspirated) uvular -- those things love to affricate (Adyghe, dialectal
> Farsi, the reason so many Cyrillic spellings of [q] use ‹х›) -- which left
> the *voiced one free to devoice (Arabic again).  Exactly the front /t/ vs.
> rear /d`/ contrast is found diachronically in Javanese and Malagasy (though
> with the gaps filled); and when there's just one sibilant it's totally
> common for it to lazily wander back (Greek, Finnish, an ancestor of
> Hebrew).  Etc.  ... next someone will tell me that the pre-Klingon the fans
> have constructed has overlòoked all this, won't they.]
>
> Alex
>



-- 
Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>

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