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CONLANG  June 2016, Week 1

CONLANG June 2016, Week 1

Subject:

(Re: conlangs as model languages

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 7 Jun 2016 19:35:42 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (94 lines)

On 07/06/2016 17:12, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> quote: Ray
>> 'conlang' is an abbreviation for "constructed
>> _language_" therefore a conlang is a language - the
>> clue is in the name ;)
>
> Well, yes, but as the White Knight so wisely observed
> (quite the philosopher he was), what something's name is
>  called doesn't necessarily equate to what the thing
> itself *is*. A sea lion isn't really a lion, and a
> prairie dog isn't really a dog, so things aren't always
> what they're called. :-P

OK, Christa, point taken   ;)

BUT to be serious: as we call everything from the low level
programming Assembler Language to things like Chinese and
English which, together, are spoken and used by millions
upon millions of people at this very moment and have
centuries of literature behind them, and everything else in
between _languages_, to deny that conlangs are languages is
IMNSHO perverse.

If you look up _language_ in Larry Trask's "A Dictionary of
Grammatical Terms in Linguistics" you find:
*language_ /'læŋɡwɪdʒ/ _n_. 1. A *natural language*. 3. A
*formal language.*

Not a great help in itself, but if we then look up 'natural
language' we find it defined as:
1. Any language which is, or once was, the mother tongue of
a group of human beings.
2. By extension, any conceivable language which is
consistent with the requirements of the theory of grammar
and which might in principle be such a mother tongue.

Then if we look up 'formal language', we find it defined thus:
A language generated by a *formal grammar*. A formal
language may or may not resemble a natural language; one of
the goals of grammatical investigation is the construction
of grammars which generate formal languages resembling
natural languages as closely as possible.

Formal languages are Assembler Language and the numerous
computer programming languages.  In the realm of conlangs,
'Plan B' is certainly a formal language and so, probably,
are some other engelangs.

By Trask's definition Sindarin and Quenya are natural
languages.  So, I think, Esperanto, Volapük, Novial, Frater
and other such auxlangs also fit his definition.

We may argue where, in Trask's bipartite division oddities
such as the "philosophic" auxlangs of the 17th century and
other more recent creations such as Lin and Babm fit; but to
deny that these are languages would be IMO perverse.

Now if we turn to David Crystal's "A Dictionary of
Linguistics and Phonetics" and look up 'language' we find
that his entry takes up one and half pages!  I will not go
into it all here.  But the entry begin thus:
*language" The everyday use of this term involves several
different senses, which LINGUISTICS is careful to distinguish.

His entry goes on to discuss all these different senses.  At
one point in his entry, you will read:
"... All of these examples would fall under the heading of
'natural languages' - a term which contrasts with the
artificially constructed systems used to expound a
conceptual area (e.g. 'forma', 'logical', 'computer'
languages) or to facilitate communication (e.g Esperanto)."

That should please you, Christa  :)

Also it should be remember that e.g. is _exempli gratia_
"for the sake of an example", i.e. he is _not_ giving
exhaustive lists of the types of artificially constructed
languages.  *But he does call them _languages_*.

Thus, while I agree that sea lions are not lions, and
prairie dogs are not dogs (nor jelly fish are fish, or
buttercups are cups), I do stick by my original claim that
constructed languages are, as David Crystal says, languages.
  Even the subject line of this thread acknowledges that they
are _languages_.  What it says is "conlangs as model languages."

Note: it does not say "conlangs _are_ model languages."
What, surely, it implies is _one way_ of looking upon
constructed languages.  In my previous email I pointed out
why did not think this is (always) the most helpful way of
looking at such languages.

Ray

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