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CONLANG  June 2016, Week 1

CONLANG June 2016, Week 1

Subject:

Re: conlangs as model languages

From:

Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 1 Jun 2016 14:32:38 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (120 lines)

On 1 June 2016 at 12:43, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>
> My personal (but also informed) opinion is that the essence, or core, of
> language is constituted of rules, and that the system when seen from close
> up and studied intently looks like a rule-based system; outside this
> 'glottonomic' core are psycholinguistics and knowledge of usage. As I said
> to David, I think it should in principle be possible to invent a full
> language (i.e. one that is not a model language), by which I mean invent
> the glottonomic core, but nobody has come close to doing it. I'm not
> arguing that there's an inherent difference between conlangs and natlangs,
> I'm arguing only that all authored conlangs to date are model languages,
> and for almost all of them their modelhood consists partly of their lack of
> inner mechanics: we seem not to disagree about conlangs being incomplete,
> so it appears we disagree only on whether a lack of inner mechanics itself
> constitutes incompleteness. (Note also that I allow for the possibility of
> working models, but such conlangs (of those known today) look nothing like
> natlangs.)
>
>
Since I disagree with the main statement, I have nothing to say about the
rest. The idea that a language is *essentially* a set of rules just smells
too much like UG for it to be even worth considering.


> But turning to your credible hunch about the mechanics of language, it
> prompts a number of questions:
> 1. Is it in principle possible to create a full working model of a
> language?
>

No, quite simply. Like I wrote, it's impossible to ever completely describe
a natlang with a rule-based system (what you call "a full working model").
You may approach it asymptotically, but you will always end up with an
irreducible residue that is not described by the rules in place (and
covering that residue with a rule like "the rest is like that because
that's how it is" is a cop-out). So whatever you do, you will always end up
with an incomplete model of a language (which does not necessarily means
that it's not working, by the way).


> 2. If it is, would the entire model be a model of language, or would
> language constitute just a part of the model, with the rest of the model
> being a model of general cognition, memory and pattern-matching, without
> which the language portion could not be a working model?
>

Since I answered no to the first question, this one cannot be answered the
way you asked. But as I wrote, you can always create working models of a
language, and these models can be rule-based. I don't deny that
possibility. The only thing I deny is the ability to create a *full*
working model.


> 3. If so, does the creative invention of a full language consist of
> inventing just the language components, on the assumption that if you feed
> them into the general cognitive model, a full working language results?
>

Once again, this question is in principle unanswerable given its
presupposition. However, the way children are able to learn languages based
on numerous, but always incomplete data (unlike UG which claims that the
data is just not numerous enough, I believe it is. It is, however, never
complete, since you can never hear all utterances one can make in a
language, however long you will live), the way creoles appear from pidgins
learned as mother tongue, and the way Esperanto evolved after it got a
speaking community (unlike what one may have expected, speakers of
Esperanto didn't, as a whole, fill the missing parts of Esperanto as it was
originally described using their L1's as pattern. Rather, they by and large
took Esperanto's unique characteristics: its extremely productive affix
system, and the absence of a true distinction between root and affix, to
fill in the holes with liberal use of such characteristics in a way that
was decidedly Esperanto-ish and incomparable. Even when borrowings appeared
at first -which was not uncommon among the first writers of Esperanto. Even
Zamenhof himself was rather conservative in his use of affixes-, they often
got replaced in time with constructions based on original Esperanto stock,
with only few exceptions), makes me opine that people can easily form a
full working language from incomplete input. The more complete the model
they are fed, the easier it will be to fill the blanks while keeping true
to the nature of the language as sketched by the incomplete description
they got, but even with what we would consider very incomplete description
I believe our innate capacity for cognition and pattern matching (and
furthermore our innate ability to find patterns where they actually don't
exist. Our brains are often over-enthusiastic in finding patterns in chaos)
will be able to fill the blanks with nary a visible scar.


> I think that if your answer were Yes to (1) and (2), a Yes to (3) would
> also be reasonable.


Actually, although my answer to (1) is no, and my answer to (2) is
undefined, my answer to (3) is yes, just not the way you expect it. And
truly, given the evidence we have of how incomplete data still allows
people to effectively learn languages, it's hard to answer (3) in any other
way.


> But what are the linguistic components of a full
> working model? What must the conlanger invent?
>
>
Since no *full* working model is possible to create, I have no answer to
that one. Just create your incomplete rule-based model as detailed as you
see fit, the way we've always done. The more detailed, the better, but even
with a rather incomplete description a speaking community will often be
able to derive an entire language out of it (although not necessarily
exactly the way you imagined it). Just don't ever try to attain that
chimerical "full working model" of a language, because that's a wild-goose
chase. Anyone who's spent decades working on a single conlang will agree
with me: one comes asymptotically close to a complete description, but it's
impossible to actually finish it (and I'm not just talking about vocabulary
size).
-- 
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
President of the Language Creation Society (http://conlang.org/)

Personal Website: http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
Personal Tumblr: http://christophoronomicon.tumblr.com/

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