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CONLANG  June 2016, Week 1

CONLANG June 2016, Week 1

Subject:

Re: conlangs as model languages

From:

Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 4 Jun 2016 13:26:56 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (60 lines)

Hallo conlangers!

On 04.06.2016 01:33, And Rosta wrote:

> On 2 June 2016 at 15:04, Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> On 01.06.2016 22:56, David Peterson wrote:
>>
>>> (2) I don’t believe you have studied either an “authored” conlang or
>>> “pidgin” conlang, as you call them, in enough detail to make any claims
>>> about them or their descriptions.
>>>
>> Nor do I.
>
> Why do you not? You know that I've had an interest in invented languages
> for forty years, yet you believe that in that time I have accumulated
> knowledge so vacuous that it does not permit me to make an informed claim
> about one itself or its description? That's very harsh, Jörg!! I mean, I
> confess to ignorance, yes, and to deep ignorance even, but to ignorance of
> such totality I cannot, however deep the wells of humility I plumb, lay
> claim. Or did you mean something different & more charitable...?

OK, then I have misconsidered you. I apologize for that. You made the 
impression of a "solipsistic conlanger" on me, but apparently, I was wrong.

>> I don't know how many languages, nat or con, And has studied, but I seem
>> to remember himself saying that he knows only one at any reasonable depth:
>> English.
>>
> English and (formerly) Lojban.

Fine. I surely am not a "master of many tongues" either - the only 
languages I am fluent in are German and English, and I have some 
practical knowledge in Latin, French, Spanish and Dutch; and while I 
have read grammars of several other natlangs and quite a few conlangs, I 
do not have practical knowledge in them.

>> [...]
> Lojban felt to me like an object I could hold in my hand and examine in its
> totality. English feels like a place, bigger than me, that I inhabit, most
> of it is deeply familiar, but I can look close up at any bit of it and find
> new details I hadn't noticed before, or climb to an unfamiliar vantage
> point and see new patterns and regularities I hadn't noticed before, and I
> am always coming across new nooks and alleys I hadn't previously
> encountered; and for all its higgledypiggledyness, the longer I study it,
> the more I feel I can descry its hidden foundations and an underlying order
> therein. That's my experience of English's 'depth'. If it was somehow
> possible to measure depth, I would wager that Esperanto is among the
> deepest of conlangs but is less deep than natlangs, but I would not wager
> more than I could comfortably afford to lose... I have no further arguments
> to support my wager, nor to suggest that depth is measurable.

Yes, that is pretty much what I was aiming at - natlangs have more depth 
than even the most-developed conlangs.

--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1

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