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CONLANG  June 2016, Week 2

CONLANG June 2016, Week 2

Subject:

Re: conlangs as model languages

From:

Jim Thain <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 9 Jun 2016 02:33:36 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (69 lines)

So lets see if I am understanding the definitions here.

langue is that part of my brain that says (when reading the local paper)
that is a spelling error, that is a grammatical error. It is the knowledge
of  which things people say are right or not.

Parole then is what I say and write in English (or conlang) that is guided
by the langue of said language.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Pete Bleackley <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> A pidgin konrangu wa desu a konrangu o meido de mikusin fiichaa no ni
> rangiwiji, laiku kore wa.
>
> Pete Bleackley
> The Fantastical Devices of Pete The Mad Scientist -
> http://fantasticaldevices.blogspot.com
> Emily Semantic Recommendation - https://emily-petebleackley.rhcloud.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 18:05
> Subject: Re: conlangs as model languages
>
> On 7 Jun 2016 18:44, "Jim Henry" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 1:21 PM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > On 7 June 2016 at 01:37, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > >> 3. Does a conlang maker invent a language?
> >
> > > If an authored conlang whose inner workings are not fully specified,
> which
> > > is invented by the author, forms the basis for the development of a
> pidgin
> > > conlang, I argue that the author has not invented the pidgin conlang.
> >
> > Zamenhof might agree  with you -- he generally described himself as
> > the initiator (iniciatinto) of Esperanto, rather than author, creator,
> > or inventor.
> >
> > I'm not entirely happy with the term "pidgin conlang" though, as used
> > conlangs like Esperanto, Lojban and Itlani don't have the grammatical
> > structure typical of pidgins.  Toki Pona probably comes closest, but
> > it's not typical of used conlangs.  But I see that you need a word to
> > distinguish those conlangs that only exist as a consciously created
> > design, vs. those that also exist in the unsconscious minds of one or
> > more speakers, allowing them to be spoken -- and in most if not all
> > cases, have additional unconsciously-developed traits that weren't in
> > the original conscious design.  Pidgin conlang seems to imply that the
> > conlangs you refer to have simpler grammar than other conlangs, when
> > in fact the reverse is typically the case.  Maybe "living conlangs"
> > would be more accurate?  Or "live conlangs" or "spoken conlangs" (but
> > that seems to contrast them with signed or purely-written conlangs).
>
> I shared your reservations about the term "pidgin", but on balance found it
> the most suitable term I could think of, because the definition of
> pidginhood is not being a native language. If a pidgin conlang became a
> native language of its speech community then it would become a creole (and
> a creole conlang). I agree that some term in the spirit of the ones you
> suggest would serve to generalize over pidgin and creole conlangs, and in
> many contexts would be more relevant than terms that classify conlangs by
> nativeness.
>
> --And.
>

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