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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  June 2016, Week 2

CONLANG June 2016, Week 2

Subject:

Re: conlangs as model languages

From:

And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:29:24 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (66 lines)

On 10 June 2016 at 17:25, Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hallo conlangers!
>
> On 10.06.2016 02:48, And Rosta wrote:
>
> On 9 June 2016 at 10:40, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> So why must the creator/ inventor/ author (or whatever) of a conlang meet
>>> a requirement that, on your own admission, no natlang meets? This is what
>>> puzzles some of us.
>>>
>> I think I'd misunderstood your previous question. If by 'specification' we
>> mean 'langue', then of course natlangs have fully specified inner
>> workings,
>> but that specification is (to date) only implicit. When you asked "How
>> many
>> natural languages meet that requirement", I thought you were asking how
>> many languages have an *explicit* specification, which is the requirement
>> I
>> lay upon the authored conlang.
>>
>
> Fair. But what about conlangs such as Tolkien's, where a full explicit
> specification has not been found yet in the manuscripts the master has left
> behind, and perhaps never existed? The coherence and consistency of the
> texts he produced clearly shows that he has at least an "implicit
> specification" in his mind, though this specification seems to have changed
> over time, doesn't it?


As I went on to say (in the bit quoted below), for T to have invented or
authored this specification, he would have had to be capable of making it
explicit (if he'd been able to find the time to write it down).


>
>
> As I've already explained somewhere in the
>> mass of prior messages that is understandably too voluminous for the
>> casual
>> reader to have digested, my argument is that if X invents or authors Y
>> then
>> Y must be explicit, or at least X must be capable of making Y explicit
>> (if,
>> say, afforded sufficient time to sit down and write it all down).In other
>> words, in order to invent or author a language, one must be able to make
>> explicit its inner workings, which in natural, uninvented unauthored,
>> languages are (as of 2016) only implicit.
>>
>
> Fine. Tolkien, for instance, certainly would have been able to write _A
> Historical Grammar of the Eldarin Languages_ if he had wanted to. He didn't
> (or maybe he did but it has not been recovered yet from the unedited stacks
> of manuscript he left behind), but he could have.
>

A historical grammar, however many thousands of pages it might run to, is
not a full specification of the inner workings that translate between
sentence sound and sentence meaning. T certainly invented and authored
material sufficient for a grand historical grammar of the Eldarin
languages, but he didn't invent or author the full inner workings, and
hence he didn't author or invent a full working language.

--And.

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