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CONLANG  June 2016, Week 2

CONLANG June 2016, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Critique my phonology please?

From:

Gabriel Brinton <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Gabriel Brinton <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:44:30 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (33 lines)

Thanks for the responses guys :)

@Doug Barton, thanks for pointing the <y> /j/ thing out, that was an error in my table. <Y> is in fact /j/, although the table would seem to suggest /M\/. I actually meant to label those two columns "Dorsal" rather than "Velar". I wanted to keep it in the same column is that i was thinking /j/ might form a natural class with the unrounded velars. I reasoned that this would make sense, since i had already decided /j/ would be realized as [g] when it precedes /i/. I know one borderline case doesn't make a natural class, and really all it does for now is simplify my table, though it may be relevant to the future evolution of the language. Is that a good enough reason for that column to form a series? Would it improve the clarity of my documentation to just add another column?

@David Quatremartin, first of all, do you pronounce your last name like it's French, or do you anglicize it? It looks super cool. Second, since <gw> is [-aspiration] not [+voice], i'm not so sure [G_w] would be a major allophone. I'm more inclined to give that one to /w/ or /W/. Although i kinda like the idea of some dialect distinguishing <kw> and <gw> by giving one a uvular allophone. Just sounding it out, <gw> feels like it could slip into [q_w] quite easily. I don't know how i would lose /N_w/ that way though.

Alex Fink said:
>In other words, my recommended solution for you is to put /v/ in your bilabial liquid spot on the table, the end. Even if it's always realised [v], never [v\] or whatever, it can still structurally pattern as the bilabial liquid.

Thanks, that's my favorite excuse to include /v/ so far! Also, upon a closer look at a few Eskimo-Aleut languages, /v/ is not the exception for being voiced, but rather /s/ is the only unvoiced one, which is interesting.

>The lack of /N_w/ is a gap, not an inexplicable one but a gap nonetheless.


So, i do have [N.w]. i decided to remove /N_w/ because it allowed some unsavory C.ngw clusters across syllable boundaries. I could have explained the nonexistence of those clusters by adding phonotactic restrictions, but at the time, the phonemic explanation seemed simpler. Can that be considered to fill the gap?

Now that i'm thinking about it again, i like word-initial ngw. I also like Vl.ngwV, which seemed odd to have in isolation, but i could explain its existence with a simple phonotactic rule: "Only a liquid may proceed ngw." Vy.ngwV and Vw.ngwV don't pose problems to this analysis because they're diphthongs, not clusters. If i never stick a consonant on the end of a syllable with diphthong, i can simplify the syllable structure from (C)V(V)(C) to just (C)V(C). This rule would allow Vv.ngwV, which is pretty weird, but if it's always realized the same as Vw.ngwV, it works out. English realizes "writer" and "rider" the same way, so this wouldn't bother me unduly. The only thing i worry about is that this requires ngw to have much more restrictive phonotactics that the whole labialized velar series *and* the nasals.

>Hard to advise on that with so little info.

Fair. I'll give a "sample text" (really just gibberish; i currently have more trees and paradigms than i have words and exponents to populate them), so you can get a sense for the sound i'm shooting for:

     Wioka ogalenggway sang imilang va Yago. Ogalak siaw Angga ngwealo tayam va mika. Bixalapo dayang, en ebexweng va yewapiut? Va yewapiutuk, engkwanubwa.

So you have either found yourself in either Velar Heaven or Velar Hell, depending whether you love or are lukewarm about velars. I personally love them, but i think i could be using my phoneme inventory more effectively. It feels like using certain phonemes changes the character of the language irredeemably (see the second two sentences). Part of it might just be orthographic hangups having to do with my anglophone expectations of a letter like <b>, <d>, or <x>. That i can get over through repeated use. But i thought i'd bring it up here in the meantime, to see if anyone with the same experience had some insights about finding that morphophonological "it" factor. The other thing is that i often find a form i like, but when i try to put it into a morphological paradigm, all the other forms sound out of place. The velars just sound great no matter what exponent is tacked onto them.

>Labialisation does not pattern with manner of articulation, but rather with place.

ooh i like that one; it's highly quotable. It's stuff like that makes me wish my school had a linguistics department. i probably won't find the time to take an actual phonology class and learn cool stuff like that for a long while. For now, i'll content myself to play around with your pw and bw suggestions.

ttfn,
Gabe

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