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CONLANG  July 2016, Week 1

CONLANG July 2016, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Nootka Is Weird: The Ultimate in V2 Syntax

From:

Siva Kalyan <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 7 Jul 2016 12:56:21 +1000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (52 lines)

Yes, I see your point.

Siva

> On 7 Jul 2016, at 12:54 PM, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> On 6 July 2016 at 19:26, Siva Kalyan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Is it really so weird? Verbs often cliticise to their objects in English, too: e.g. Bóney was=a=wárrior; Your=són has=a=quéstion; etc. They’re not usually analysed as clitics, but this may be written-language bias.
>> 
>> The bit about movement is admittedly unexpected.
> 
> Yes, it really is. (At least, *I* think so.)
> 
> Cliticizing to the *edge* of the object wouldn't be so weird,
> admittedly. But cliticizing to the *interior* of the object?
> It would be as if you said "Your son a=was warrior", or "I dangly=like
> jewelry", and that's before you even get to the movement.
> 
> Just the movement wouldn't be *that* weird on its own, either; if the
> verbs cliticized to the edge of the object, it would just look like
> some verbs trigger a different argument order than usual.
> 
> -l.
> 
>>> On 7 Jul 2016, at 9:15 AM, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> In the course of doing research on lexical suffixes for Valaklwuuxa, I
>>> came across a really weird thing.
>>> 
>>> Nootka has what appear to be lexical suffixes with the semantics of
>>> transitive verbs, instead of vague substantives, as is typical in
>>> Salish languages. They attach to their objects, and then still require
>>> a subject, or they can attach to an expletive base and act like
>>> regular transitive verbs that take a subject and an object.
>>> 
>>> This I intend to steal for Valaklwuuxa.
>>> 
>>> But when you look closer, it gets way weirder, in a way that I
>>> unfortunately don't think I can make use of in Valaklwuuxa:
>>> 
>>> If the object of the bound verb is not a single word, it turns out to
>>> actually behave like a clitic that attaches to the first word in the
>>> object phrase, whether that is a noun, adjective, determiner,
>>> quantifier, or relative pronoun. That whole verb-clitic-and-object
>>> phrase then ends up moved to the beginning of its containing clause,
>>> while typical ordering is VSO.
>>> 
>>> This seemed like the kind of can't-make-this-up weirdness that someone
>>> else might be inspired to use in a conlang.
>>> 
>>> -l.

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