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CONLANG  July 2016, Week 1

CONLANG July 2016, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Nootka Is Weird: The Ultimate in V2 Syntax

From:

David Peterson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 7 Jul 2016 01:17:33 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (77 lines)

If I understand this right (which I’m sure I don’t, because Logan didn’t include any actual examples [hint, hint]), this isn’t so strange.

Take something like “-sounding”. This does’t mean anything in English, but it does if you add a qualifier, e.g. “strange-sounding”, “weird-sounding”, “funny-sounding”, etc. The whole thing, then, becomes a modifier (e.g. “an odd-sounding story”).

Now let’s move to a participle from a transitive verb, like “-kicking”. You can have “a ball-kicking soccer player”. That’s easy enough. Now imagine you *backform* a verb out of that. This is like taking “truckdriver” and getting the word “truckdrive” (great example on The Simpsons where Homer says, “He card-reads good!”). So now you have a verb “to ball-kick”, which means “to kick a ball”.

Now let’s say we lose the regular verb “kick”. It’s gone. You can no longer say “I kicked the ball”. Instead, we only have “-kick”. You can’t use it unless there’s an object it attaches to. This is pretty limiting, because sometimes you’ll have to kick something that has greater phonological weight than monosyllabic “ball”. Like what if you wanted to say that a friend of yours kicked “that chain-linked fence next to the supermarket”? You certainly can’t say “My friend that-chain-linked-fence-next-to-the-supermarket-kicked”. That’s abominable. You have to attach “-kick” to SOMETHING, though, so why not the very first part of the object?

My friend that-kicked chain-linked fence next to the supermarket.

(Honestly, if this were really English, I think a “the” would need to be reintroduced. Feels odd without it.)

You could also do it with adjectives:

My friend blue-kicked the wall.

Here things break down a little, because it would make much more sense for this to happen to a language where adjectives can stand on their own as nouns (e.g. “blue” would mean “the blue one”), but if that’s what’s going on, it makes sense to me. The verb-like element cliticizes when its object is too big. Once that’s been established, you can get creative with it. Reminds me of similar phenomena I’ve seen in ASL and Moro.

David Peterson
LCS Member Since 2007
[log in to unmask]
http://www.artoflanguageinvention.com/

=================================
Purchase The Art of Language Invention!

http://bit.ly/conlang
=================================

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 7:54 PM, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> On 6 July 2016 at 19:26, Siva Kalyan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Is it really so weird? Verbs often cliticise to their objects in English, too: e.g. Bóney was=a=wárrior; Your=són has=a=quéstion; etc. They’re not usually analysed as clitics, but this may be written-language bias.
>> 
>> The bit about movement is admittedly unexpected.
> 
> Yes, it really is. (At least, *I* think so.)
> 
> Cliticizing to the *edge* of the object wouldn't be so weird,
> admittedly. But cliticizing to the *interior* of the object?
> It would be as if you said "Your son a=was warrior", or "I dangly=like
> jewelry", and that's before you even get to the movement.
> 
> Just the movement wouldn't be *that* weird on its own, either; if the
> verbs cliticized to the edge of the object, it would just look like
> some verbs trigger a different argument order than usual.
> 
> -l.
> 
>>> On 7 Jul 2016, at 9:15 AM, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> In the course of doing research on lexical suffixes for Valaklwuuxa, I
>>> came across a really weird thing.
>>> 
>>> Nootka has what appear to be lexical suffixes with the semantics of
>>> transitive verbs, instead of vague substantives, as is typical in
>>> Salish languages. They attach to their objects, and then still require
>>> a subject, or they can attach to an expletive base and act like
>>> regular transitive verbs that take a subject and an object.
>>> 
>>> This I intend to steal for Valaklwuuxa.
>>> 
>>> But when you look closer, it gets way weirder, in a way that I
>>> unfortunately don't think I can make use of in Valaklwuuxa:
>>> 
>>> If the object of the bound verb is not a single word, it turns out to
>>> actually behave like a clitic that attaches to the first word in the
>>> object phrase, whether that is a noun, adjective, determiner,
>>> quantifier, or relative pronoun. That whole verb-clitic-and-object
>>> phrase then ends up moved to the beginning of its containing clause,
>>> while typical ordering is VSO.
>>> 
>>> This seemed like the kind of can't-make-this-up weirdness that someone
>>> else might be inspired to use in a conlang.
>>> 
>>> -l.

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