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CONLANG  September 2016, Week 4

CONLANG September 2016, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Inuktitut syllabics

From:

"Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 27 Sep 2016 00:34:41 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (171 lines)

Why would "conlang" end in "an.g" instead of there being a separate
syllable for "ang"? Since that's /ŋ/, not /ng/...
On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 18:51 And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Speaking of abugidas, I think that if I were to invent from scratch for
> contemporary English a writing system that best reflected its phonology, it
> would be an abugida -- but its characters would represent not C(V) but (V)C
> (or in some cases (V)C(C)). Not that (V)C units are especially fundamental
> to English, but they're the units that are, I think, most combinatorially
> unconstrained, so the greatest number of orthographic strings represent
> something that's phonologically licit, yielding the most economical system.
> Not all dialects would have the same inventory of characters.
>
> _Conlang_, for instance, would be <k.on.l.an.g>, five letters. _Mark Reed_
> would be <m.a°r.k r.iy.d>, six letters. _And Rosta_ would be <ånd
> r.ozd.°r>, four letters, (or <an.d r.ozd.°h> for some lects, five letters),
> or <ånd r.oš.d.°r>, five letters, in alternative pronunciation. _Paul
> Roser_ would be <p.o°r.l r.ůw.z.°r>, in my lect, seven letters, <p.oh.l
> r.ůw.z.°r> in his (I think). Alex Fink would be <al.°gz f.in.k>, five
> letters.
>
> I've mostly worked out the values for the characters, but never bothered
> making up shapes for the characters. If anybody fancies making up the
> shapes, be my guest!
>
> --And.
>
> On 26 September 2016 at 22:47, Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > In a true syllabary there is not necessarily any visible connection
> between
> > symbols for syllables with a common phoneme. Good luck identifying the
> part
> > of a kana glyph representing the vowel, for instance. There's not really
> > anything in き (Hiragana /ki/) that you can point to and say "that's the
> > /i/".
> >
> > An abugida is closer to an alphabet or pointed abjad. The mainline glyphs
> > represent consonants, and are recognizable even when there are vowel
> > changes. By default, a consonant symbol by itself represents a syllable
> > consisting of that consonant followed by some default vowel (/a/ in the
> > case of Devanagari and related scripts), but you can add markings that
> > change the vowel or, in the case of the virama, remove it entirely.
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 17:34 William Wright <[log in to unmask]
> > com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between an adugida and
> > > a syllabary?
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 2:31 PM, William Wright
> > > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > Sorry about that; I meant to send it to the list. Thanks for the
> > answer,
> > > though.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 1:19 PM, jameshyett jameshyett
> > > > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >> Hey there, did you mean to send this to the mailing list or to me
> > > >> specifically?
> > > >>
> > > >> The two are very similar, but I believe in an abugida (like
> > Devanagari),
> > > >> while each symbol does by default represent (at least) a CV
> sequence,
> > > >> additional vowel markings can be added to change the vowel from
> > default
> > > (eg
> > > >> 'a' in Devanagari). In a 'true' syllabary, each symbol represents
> one
> > > >> syllable (in Inuktitut syllabics, a CV sequence), with additional
> > > markings
> > > >> possibly for things other than vowels (in Inuktitut, there are
> > explicit
> > > >> markings for coda consonants and vowel length).
> > > >>
> > > >> Cheers,
> > > >>
> > > >> -James
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------- Original Message ----------
> > > >> From: William Wright <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >> Date: September 26, 2016 at 3:01 PM
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between an adugida
> and
> > > >> a syllabary?
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 11:36 AM, jameshyett jameshyett
> > > >> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >>> Very neat, I concur, but also interesting to note the rate of
> > literacy
> > > in
> > > >>> syllabics, as discussed in this article http://goo.gl/lrNTK3,
> > > particularly
> > > >>> in
> > > >>> the third-last paragraph. In my opinion, and there is probably
> > science
> > > >>> that
> > > >>> backs this up, the system is a nightmare for dyslexia, quite apart
> > from
> > > >>> making
> > > >>> rotated text (eg reading upside down) so much more of a challenge.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Not terribly articulate cause I'm in lecture and have to pee but
> this
> > > is
> > > >>> what i
> > > >>> thought of when i saw the subject line.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -James
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> ---------- Original Message ----------
> > > >>>> From: "B. R. George" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >>>> Date: September 26, 2016 at 2:08 PM
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Part of a family of scripts first developed for (I think) Ojibwe,
> > no?
> > > >>>> (Sorry if that's already in the video in detail - I'm not in a
> good
> > > place
> > > >>>> to watch it.)
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> In any case, I concur that it's pretty cool.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> B
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Logan Kearsley <
> > > [log in to unmask]>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> > This is a pretty cool script that I had not heard of before:
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW4hI_METac
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Also one of the few examples of a conscript becoming the
> standard
> > > >>>> > orthography of a natlang.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > -l.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Sincerely,
> > > >> William S. Wright
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > >          William S. Wright
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sincerely,
> > >          William S. Wright
> > >
> >
>

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