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CONLANG  September 2016, Week 4

CONLANG September 2016, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Inuktitut syllabics

From:

"Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 27 Sep 2016 00:36:48 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (181 lines)

And what would the default vowel be? Schwa? Dialectically variant?
On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 20:34 Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Why would "conlang" end in "an.g" instead of there being a separate
> syllable for "ang"? Since that's /ŋ/, not /ng/...
> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 18:51 And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Speaking of abugidas, I think that if I were to invent from scratch for
>> contemporary English a writing system that best reflected its phonology,
>> it
>> would be an abugida -- but its characters would represent not C(V) but
>> (V)C
>> (or in some cases (V)C(C)). Not that (V)C units are especially fundamental
>> to English, but they're the units that are, I think, most combinatorially
>> unconstrained, so the greatest number of orthographic strings represent
>> something that's phonologically licit, yielding the most economical
>> system.
>> Not all dialects would have the same inventory of characters.
>>
>> _Conlang_, for instance, would be <k.on.l.an.g>, five letters. _Mark Reed_
>> would be <m.a°r.k r.iy.d>, six letters. _And Rosta_ would be <ånd
>> r.ozd.°r>, four letters, (or <an.d r.ozd.°h> for some lects, five
>> letters),
>> or <ånd r.oš.d.°r>, five letters, in alternative pronunciation. _Paul
>> Roser_ would be <p.o°r.l r.ůw.z.°r>, in my lect, seven letters, <p.oh.l
>> r.ůw.z.°r> in his (I think). Alex Fink would be <al.°gz f.in.k>, five
>> letters.
>>
>> I've mostly worked out the values for the characters, but never bothered
>> making up shapes for the characters. If anybody fancies making up the
>> shapes, be my guest!
>>
>> --And.
>>
>> On 26 September 2016 at 22:47, Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> > In a true syllabary there is not necessarily any visible connection
>> between
>> > symbols for syllables with a common phoneme. Good luck identifying the
>> part
>> > of a kana glyph representing the vowel, for instance. There's not really
>> > anything in き (Hiragana /ki/) that you can point to and say "that's the
>> > /i/".
>> >
>> > An abugida is closer to an alphabet or pointed abjad. The mainline
>> glyphs
>> > represent consonants, and are recognizable even when there are vowel
>> > changes. By default, a consonant symbol by itself represents a syllable
>> > consisting of that consonant followed by some default vowel (/a/ in the
>> > case of Devanagari and related scripts), but you can add markings that
>> > change the vowel or, in the case of the virama, remove it entirely.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 17:34 William Wright
>> <[log in to unmask]
>> > com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between an adugida and
>> > > a syllabary?
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 2:31 PM, William Wright
>> > > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > > > Sorry about that; I meant to send it to the list. Thanks for the
>> > answer,
>> > > though.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 1:19 PM, jameshyett jameshyett
>> > > > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > > >> Hey there, did you mean to send this to the mailing list or to me
>> > > >> specifically?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> The two are very similar, but I believe in an abugida (like
>> > Devanagari),
>> > > >> while each symbol does by default represent (at least) a CV
>> sequence,
>> > > >> additional vowel markings can be added to change the vowel from
>> > default
>> > > (eg
>> > > >> 'a' in Devanagari). In a 'true' syllabary, each symbol represents
>> one
>> > > >> syllable (in Inuktitut syllabics, a CV sequence), with additional
>> > > markings
>> > > >> possibly for things other than vowels (in Inuktitut, there are
>> > explicit
>> > > >> markings for coda consonants and vowel length).
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Cheers,
>> > > >>
>> > > >> -James
>> > > >>
>> > > >> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> > > >> From: William Wright <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > >> Date: September 26, 2016 at 3:01 PM
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between an adugida
>> and
>> > > >> a syllabary?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 11:36 AM, jameshyett jameshyett
>> > > >> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > > >>> Very neat, I concur, but also interesting to note the rate of
>> > literacy
>> > > in
>> > > >>> syllabics, as discussed in this article http://goo.gl/lrNTK3,
>> > > particularly
>> > > >>> in
>> > > >>> the third-last paragraph. In my opinion, and there is probably
>> > science
>> > > >>> that
>> > > >>> backs this up, the system is a nightmare for dyslexia, quite apart
>> > from
>> > > >>> making
>> > > >>> rotated text (eg reading upside down) so much more of a challenge.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Not terribly articulate cause I'm in lecture and have to pee but
>> this
>> > > is
>> > > >>> what i
>> > > >>> thought of when i saw the subject line.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> -James
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> > > >>>> From: "B. R. George" <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > >>>> Date: September 26, 2016 at 2:08 PM
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Part of a family of scripts first developed for (I think) Ojibwe,
>> > no?
>> > > >>>> (Sorry if that's already in the video in detail - I'm not in a
>> good
>> > > place
>> > > >>>> to watch it.)
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> In any case, I concur that it's pretty cool.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> B
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Logan Kearsley <
>> > > [log in to unmask]>
>> > > >>>> wrote:
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> > This is a pretty cool script that I had not heard of before:
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW4hI_METac
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > Also one of the few examples of a conscript becoming the
>> standard
>> > > >>>> > orthography of a natlang.
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > -l.
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> --
>> > > >> Sincerely,
>> > > >> William S. Wright
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Sincerely,
>> > > >          William S. Wright
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Sincerely,
>> > >          William S. Wright
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

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December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
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November 2005, Week 3
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November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
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October 2005, Week 1
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September 2005, Week 1
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June 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
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March 2005, Week 1
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January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
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December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
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November 2004, Week 3
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October 2004, Week 1
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August 2004, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
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February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
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December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
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November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 3
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February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
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December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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November 2001, Week 1
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October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
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April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 3
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February 2000, Week 1
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January 2000, Week 4
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December 1998, Week 5
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