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CONLANG  October 2016, Week 3

CONLANG October 2016, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Fractional Numbers

From:

J S Jones <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 18 Oct 2016 18:00:17 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (69 lines)

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 12:31:54 -0600, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>On 17 October 2016 at 15:10, J S Jones <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> I'm happy to see the various responses to this. It looks like I'm going with marking the determiner with a suffix and putting the numerator after. The next question will be about scalar absolutes, such as, "The wall is 5 feet tall." Also, "Water has temperature."
>
>If you already know what it will be, then effectively it already is, is it not?
>
>It seems to me that expressing scalar absolutes is mostly a matter of
>how you handle units. I can't think of an example off the top of my
>head where some kind of unit of measurement would not be involved. If
>you just say, e.g., "the wall is 5 tall", it doesn't mean anything
>unless the context supplies an obvious unit, which has merely been
>elided. And even something like "I am 27" in English only works
>because there's a convention in the language that just using a bare
>number *means* "age", with the unit "years"- and that does not apply
>to other languages.
>
If I'd known you were going to take the trouble of a long reply, I would've given more information! As well as figuring out how to represent the unit expressions, I need to distinguish absolute from relative, as in:

1. relative: "The wall is tall."
2. relative: "The wall is 6 inches taller than normal."
3. absolute: "The wall has height."
4. absolute: "The wall is 5 feet tall."

Basically, I need to distinguish 3 from 1 and 4 from 2.

>If units are nouns, then you just have to figure out how how cardinal
>numbers work with nouns, and then figure out how unit noun phrases get
>attached to the thing being measured.
>
This is for the verb-and-particle language. However, verbs can have nounish usages, such as being in phrases with cardinal numbers. But possibly this ties in with the phrase-or-clause question.

>At that point, there're two basic patterns you can employ- make the
>unit expression the main predicate, and then attach the dimensions
>being measured as some kind of adjunct, or make the dimension the main
>predicate and attach the units as some kind of adjunct. With the first
>option, you get things like "The wall is five feet in height", "the
>wall measures five feet in height", "the wall has five feet of
>height".
>With the second option, you get things like "The wall is high by five
>feet", "the wall has-a-height of five feet". You could even treat
>ascription of dimensions as basic transitive verbs, where the unit
>expression is a core object; something like "the wall heights five
>feet". Heck, there are even English verbs that can be used this way-
>e.g., "the mountain rises 3000 feet" instead of "the mountain is 3000
>feet tall" or "the road runs 4 miles" instead of "the road is four
>miles long".
>
I'll look into adapting the 2nd option, I think. "Tall/height" is an intransitive verb, but might be made transitive. The 1st option looks more difficult for Oct06.

>The standard English construction for those ("is 3000 feet high", "is
>four miles long") essentially turns the unit phrase into an adverb,
>because English has flexible parts of speech and you can do things
>like that, but it's connected with how English handles attributives.
>In an attributive rather than predicative construction, you say "the
>four-mile-long road", which is basically exactly the same structure as
>"the long road" with the unit phrase acting as an adverbial modifier
>on the attributive adjective, just like it does with the predicate
>adjective. So this is essentially treating the dimension as the main
>predicate, and turning the unit phrase into an adverbial modifier as
>the specific mechanism that is used to attach it as an adjunct.
>
>-l.

I'll have to change the phrase syntax to allow modifiers of that sort; right now all I have is a sort of incorporation.

--
Jeff

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