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CONLANG  November 2016, Week 2

CONLANG November 2016, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Outer Limits

From:

Wesley Parish <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 9 Nov 2016 00:04:03 +1300

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (148 lines)

One PNG language a grammar of which I dimly remember seeing amongst my father's
personal library, had regular second and third persons in present tense/aspect,
and a different arrangement for first person singular. If only I could remember
the name of the language!!! It was from the Madang coast IIRC. But I last saw
that brief grammar in the late eighties.

At the time I didn't think much of it - it reminded me of the way Tok Pisin
maarks thrid person with the "Ô" "mi kam; yu go; em i kam i go"; "mipela stap
long raunwara; yumi toktok planti long olgeta samting; na yupela harim gut; ol i
no save long dispela tasol!"

Quoting Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>:

> At some point I'm going to read those. I love weird linguistic stuff!
> 
<snip>
> And slightly less weird but cool nonetheless are marked-S languages,
> i.e.
> languages that break Greenberg's universal nr. 38: "Where there is a
> case
> system, the only case which ever has only zero allomorphs is the one
> which
> includes among its meanings that of the subject of the intransitive
> verb."
> Such languages are languages with perfectly simple alignments
> (nominative-accusative or ergative-absolutive), no split-S or fluid-S
> shenanigans, but for which the case with a zero allomorph is *not* the
> one
> that marks the subject of the intransitive verb. In other words, these
> are
> nominative-accusative languages where the *accusative* is unmarked, or
> ergative-absolutive languages where the *ergative* is unmarked. Here's
> a
> good book on that matter that I'm currently reading:
> http://www.oapen.org/search?identifier=533871.

Where the zero case is the object, not the subject! I wonder if that occurs in
combination with adjective-as-verb?

Wesley Parish

> 
> On 4 November 2016 at 16:01, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 15:13:14 -0700, Jeffrey Brown <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >omg.
> > >600 pages of weird stuff.
> > >I like this one:
> > > The Dravidian zero negative (Master 1946), reported from (earlier
> > >stages)
> > >of many South and Central Dravidian languages, is a negative
> construction
> > in
> > >which negation is expressed without an overt marker of negation, by
> the
> > mere
> > >absence of tense marking present in the corresponding affirmatives.
> >
> > My current favourite is Abui (eastern Indonesia, Papuan), at least if
> the
> > analysis there of Klamer and Kratochvíl holds up.
> >
> > What do you suppose the below is a list of?
> >
> > /p t k b d f s h m n N l r i u e o a/
> >
> > It's the Abui inventory of generic verbs! It might also be the
> inventory
> > of non-borrowed phonemes, but that wasn't given; it's close, at
> least.
> >
> > The generic verbs are verbs with very broad senses, like /i/ 'put,
> lay
> > down, stop' or /N/ 'look, face, turn to, ?appear so to'. They can be
> used
> > as main verbs (though the consonantal ones need to be phonologically
> hosted
> > by a person prefix), as suffixes / final elements of compounds with
> other
> > verbs and nouns and ideophones and so forth, and most remarkably in
> long
> > verbal compounds consisting only of generic verbs, such as
> /t-u-k-o-l-a-d-/
> > 'have a leak', lit. 'lie-leave-throw-point-give-be_at-hold'.
> >
> > The compounds of three generic verbs, which for phonological reasons
> are
> > restricted to be C-V-C, are described as forming a heavily
> compositional
> > system, though not one that fully predicts the meanings in practice of
> the
> > resulting compounds. The coda verb expresses "event type" (presence
> of
> > motion, causativity, achievementhood in Vendler's sense, ...), the
> nucleus
> > verb expresses aspect related to the boundaries of the event
> (progressive,
> > perfect, inceptive, ...), and the onset verb expresses spatial
> > configuration (near vs. far, horizontal vs. vertical, parallel vs.
> > intersecting, ...). I won't give them here, but there are lots and
> lots of
> > examples of paradigms of compound verbs where just one of these
> components
> > are changing given in the _Rara & Rarissima_ book, page 209 on. The
> net
> > effect is something like an extremely thoroughgoing and well-used
> version
> > of the phonaesthetic section of a lexicon like English's ("stomp" vs.
> > "stamp" vs. "tamp" vs ...)
> >
> >
> > Also, this phenomenon strikes me as a nice datum in support of And's
> idea
> > that verbs seem to prefer to avoid homonymy by converting it to
> polysemy,
> > i.e. fusing the two originally distinct senses to make a single sense
> that
> > encompasses both. With 18 one-segment verbs the coupon-collector's
> problem
> > suggests there would've been at least fifty-odd etymological verbs in
> the
> > set that got phonologically whittled down to become them, and yet the
> > article gives no sign that the senses of the generic verbs are
> anything but
> > unitary now.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
> President of the Language Creation Society (http://conlang.org/)
> 
> Personal Website: http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
> Personal Tumblr: http://christophoronomicon.tumblr.com/
>  



"I have supposed that he who buys a Method means to learn it." - Ferdinand Sor,
Method for Guitar

"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on." -- Samuel Goldwyn

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December 2004, Week 5
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October 2002, Week 5
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October 2002, Week 3
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March 2002, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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