LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for TEI-L Archives


TEI-L Archives

TEI-L Archives


TEI-L@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

TEI-L Home

TEI-L Home

TEI-L  March 2017

TEI-L March 2017

Subject:

Re: TEI, literary analysis, spatial concerns, and GIS

From:

Øyvind Eide <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Øyvind Eide <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:26:21 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (108 lines)

Thanks for an interesting discussion!

Textual features such as place names and other strings referring to places are fairly easy to encode as specific strings, using ordinary inline TEI markup. When more complex spatial relationships are to be recorded it is a question how close to the text the recording have to be. Surely, it is good to have links back to the evidence from the system used to study the material, and text encoding is good to establish such links. However, I have found it useful to express relationships between place references in a different way. 

This is in line with how co-reference information / place thesauri are meant to be encoded in TEI, using a place element in the header connecting through XML links all the place references in the text referring to that place. 

So, even if statements such as “the place referred to by string A is east of the place referred to by string B” are based on  textual evidence, the information can still be stored disconnected from the specific textual expression establishing the relationship. A link to the paragraph (or other unit) where the statement is made can often be nice, but anything more detailed than that is generally hard to do and in my experience it is often not needed.

Thus, a combination of textual features referring to places in a broad sense (including rooms, shelves, and what have you) encoded in TEI and then relationship structures expressed partly in another formalism such as RDF can be quite useful.

All the best,

Øyvind

> On 16 Mar 2017, at 02:48, Elisa Beshero-Bondar <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> Megan—Thank you! I’m glad my Thalaba project is helpful for you—I learned my way around Cytoscape by working on that project! I think your project on Tiempo de Silencio is fascinating: you will have many different kinds of locations and relationships among places to think about. 
> 
> About the various ways to encode place in the TEI, you’ve likely been looking at Chapter 13 of the Guidelines, and the sections about encoding various kinds of geographic and geopolitical locations: http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ND.html#NDPLAC . But you will want to customize your approach, and I don’t think the TEI is establishing a hierarchy of place so much as offering options for encoding. (I’m not aware, for example, of an element specifically for encoding a room.) But you can adapt the TEI to your project and find a way to encode various kinds of locations. This is an area where some pioneering efforts might be made, I think. Most of our orientation and vocabulary regarding places in digital projects is associated with mapping, but when we work with space and place in literary contexts, we frequently move into zones of mythical and abstract space, or of fictional landscapes. 
> 
> For Thalaba, and other projects I’m working on, I try to keep the markup simple—<placeName> and <rs type=“place”> vs. <rs type=“metaplace”> are customizations I designed for the project (with a few other attributes in play). But I save the more complex typology of places for a separate “placeography” file, in which I store a catalogue of each distinct place, associated with information about what kind of place it is. You can dereference the markup with a prosopography file, in which each distinct place is given a distinct id, and work in the elements that help to classify it. My approach is basically to harvest widely over a pile of documents, and try to do all the classification work in one place elsewhere. Now, that’s easy for me to say, working on multiple projects at once—it’s a working method. I’ll say it can be difficult to work out how complicated a schema you want to devise, and you may just want to spend a while coding some chapters experimentally and doing a lot of lookup in the TEI Guidelines to work out your strategy.
> 
> I guess what I’m saying is that the TEI isn’t really providing a recipe to follow so much as food for thought and guidance, and definitions of the appropriate ways (plural) in which tags can be used. And I also think that encoding places as they’re referenced in literature can be especially and marvellously complex, and we stand to learn a great deal from an adventurous effort to encode them—both within the TEI and in literary scholarship! 
> 
> Hope this helps a little...
> Elisa
> -- 
> Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD
> Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English
> University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division
> 150 Finoli Drive
> Greensburg, PA  15601  USA
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> Development site: http://newtfire.org
> 
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2017, at 11:17 AM, MEGAN MARY CYTRON DWYER <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Elisa--
>> Thanks so much for the link to your project! Just getting a peek at the way you are tagging--and then seeing the beautiful networks you are generating with Cytoscape--is quite helpful, not to mention inspirational. 
>> 
>> To answer your question, I am working on a literary cartography of Madrid, starting with the novel Tiempo de Silencio by Luis Martín-Santos, which--in addition to its other charms--functions as a radical reworking of Madrid's literary (and artistic) spaces via a complex web of overlapping geographic and metaliterary references and allusions, along with a strong dose of realism regarding demographic shifts in post-war Madrid. On a deeper level, I'm interested in the mechanisms that authors use to create such elaborate mental mapping and geographic awareness in the mind of the reader. 
>> 
>> The philological approach to literature that I was taught here in Spain is very much like markup to begin with and what you wrote about Cytoscape resonates with me: "A great reason to try plotting a network from XML structure might just be because you have a hunch that you might learn something interesting based on relationships you’re beginning to see in your markup." 
>> 
>> Syd, Lou, and Thomas--
>> Thanks for the practical advice on tackling places and the notion of naming. I'm looking for a way to balance detailed tagging of what is actually there in the text, while also capturing what is stirred up in the mind of the reader and you have given me plenty of food for thought. This particular text plays with ellipsis to such an extent that naming is quite relevant, even/especially in its absence. There's no doubt that I need to capture all of that information. 
>> 
>> Question: is there any established hierarchy of places from macro to micro (e.g. planet, continent, country, region, city, street, building, room)? 
>> 
>> --Megan
>> 
>> 2017-03-14 15:32 GMT+01:00 Thomas Elliott <[log in to unmask]>:
>> To agree with Lou by disagreeing on one point:
>> 
>> I wouldn't describe the distinction that TEI makes between "place name" and "place" (and between personal name and person) as "old-fashioned". Rather, it's an essential, scholarly/analytical distinction, and one that makes TEI exceptionally well-suited for working with textual sources that mention -- and (in combination) structured information about -- past places, imagined places, contingent places, etc. "Place" is a cognitive construct. "Place name" (in text encoding) is a sequence of characters in a writing system that are understood to refer to a place. There can be other textual references to a place: descriptions, euphemisms, puns, allusions, ethnica, etc.
>> 
>> T
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tom Elliott, Ph.D.
>> Associate Director for Digital Programs and Senior Research Scholar
>> Institute for the Study of the Ancient World (NYU)
>> http://isaw.nyu.edu/people/staff/tom-elliott
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 6:21 AM, Lou Burnard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Interesting set of questions!
>> 
>> I'll just address this one for now:
>> 
>> "the physical places I want to tag ... manifest in the text in a variety of ways"
>> 
>> The TEI is a bit old fashioned perhaps in making a strong ontological distinction between tagging about a named entity (a place) and its manifestation (a placename). That's because it is, after all, the TEXT encoding initiative, not the THING encoding initiative. So the name of a place as it appears in a document is an intimate part of the document, which you might well want to tag as signalling something or other. Whereas all the things you might want to say about the thing being signalled are probably not present in the document at all, or not in the same place, or not in the same way. So we have both <placeName> for the former and <place> for the latter. You might lump together all the names used for a place as child elements of a <place> element, along with some indication of the way in which the names are applied, and also along with geographical information relating to the place as a real world object. That isn't a part of your text in the same way as the references to it and you would typically not put it inside your transcription but inside the metadata for describing it. You might simply flag all the references as they occur within the document and indicate that each one is "about" the same thing by means of a @ref or @key attribute on the reference. You might do both!
>> 
>> 
>> On 14/03/17 01:41, Megan Cytron wrote:
>> Hello--
>> First off, apologies if this isn't the correct forum for this question.
>> 
>> I'm just embarking on a doctoral dissertation in which I hope to do a spatial analysis of a rather complex 20th-century novel. I'm a programmer (in another life) and have quite a bit of experience with GIS and XML and was planning to use it to tag the text I'm analyzing so I can generate statistics, charts, maps and other data-driven visualizations of the novel's inner workings.
>> 
>> After (re)discovering TEI (I worked with it way back in the 90s in a completely different way), it seems that I could adapt it to my use case, but I'm a bit uncertain of how best to capture all of the variables I want to look at. I have found many examples of TEI encoded texts, but none that go too deep into this particular brand of literary criticism. For example, these are some of the variables that interest me with a few examples:
>> 
>> --mappable places  (physical locations in the plot, literary overlapping, allusions, trajectories, overlapping with author's biography)
>> --changes in position (forward/backward/turns, uphill/downhill, stops,  fast/slow, inside/outside)
>> --narration and voice (1st person, 3rd person, subjective/objective/omniscient, stream of consciousness)
>> --semantic fields (colors, sickness, science, feelings, physical states, atmospheric conditions)
>> --rhetorical devices (anaphora, metonymy, paranomasia, juxtaposition)
>> --intertextuality (allusion, quotation, parody)
>> --time alterations (analepsis/prolepsis/flash sideways/foreshadowing, anachronism)
>> --verbs (type, aspect, mode, tense)
>> 
>> I'm fully prepared to invent my own tagging scheme, if it makes sense to do so, but if something already exists and has been implemented with success, I'd much prefer to replicate what I can and contribute another example (or many!).
>> 
>> Is anyone else using TEI in this way? Are there any resources (aside from the obvious TEI Guidelines) and especially examples that would be useful for someone just starting out? Or groups where folks are talking about projects like this and sharing experiences?
>> 
>> In particular, I'm finding the "place" and "placename" tags to be somewhat confusing for what I want to do, because the physical places I want to tag (with lat/long coordinates and some fencing) manifest in the text in a variety of ways (proper names, metonymy, ellipsis, ironic allusions, via demonyms applied to people or objects, etc.).
>> 
>> Any help or general "pointing in the right direction" that you may be able to offer would be greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> --Megan
>> 
>> 
> 

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995
October 1995
September 1995
August 1995
July 1995
June 1995
May 1995
April 1995
March 1995
February 1995
January 1995
December 1994
November 1994
October 1994
September 1994
August 1994
July 1994
June 1994
May 1994
April 1994
March 1994
February 1994
January 1994
December 1993
November 1993
October 1993
September 1993
August 1993
July 1993
June 1993
May 1993
April 1993
March 1993
February 1993
January 1993
December 1992
November 1992
October 1992
September 1992
August 1992
July 1992
June 1992
May 1992
April 1992
March 1992
February 1992
January 1992
December 1991
November 1991
October 1991
September 1991
August 1991
July 1991
June 1991
May 1991
April 1991
March 1991
February 1991
January 1991
December 1990
November 1990
October 1990
September 1990
August 1990
July 1990
June 1990
April 1990
March 1990
February 1990
January 1990

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager