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CONLANG  March 2017, Week 5

CONLANG March 2017, Week 5

Subject:

Re: A Plan for Verbs

From:

J S Jones <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 29 Mar 2017 21:25:39 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (51 lines)

I couldn't access  _Applicative Constructions_, but did find a paper by the same author which touched on applicative origins. It looks like I'll have to use the same verb roots for both cases and the corresponding applicatives.

Meanwhile, I have a problem: the vowel of the -VC aspect suffixes is dictated by the stem, not the suffix. When the aspect is attached directly to a root, this isn't a real problem, because (I think) I can use analogy to make the vowel partly dependent on the aspect instead (of course, analogy requires a lot of roots first). However, this doesn't work when the aspect is attached to another inflection (voice or derivational)--all the aspects will have the same vowel. Is this at all understandable?

Jeff

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 15:08:00 -0400, J S Jones <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 09:27:51 -0400, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 12:15:33 -0400, J S Jones <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>>I decided to develop a diachronic basis for my latest sketch (Mar22). Except for some sound changes this is what I have so far; there are still some holes in the plan.
>>[...]
>>>The next thing that happens is that certain auxiliary verbs, along with their aspect suffixes, get appended to the content roots; these verbs either mark grammatical voice or are derivational; one of the former is a passive marker for originally transitive verbs and the other is a causative marker for originally intransitive verbs. This will end up being a direct-inverse system, with most scalar and relational verbs marking direct and not inverse and all other verbs marking inverse and not direct. 
>>
>First, I've improved this just a little bit; the current version of the history, including sound changes is at:
>http://qiihoskeh.conlang.org/cl/o/Mar22/MkHisto.htm
>
>>This reminds me that I meant to respond to you when you were first asking about direct-inverse systems, but didn't have time.  Guy Jacques 
>>  https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01386706/document
>>says that the best-attested course of inverse markers is from a *cislocative*; sources in voice or agreement morphology are "fewer and more difficult to interpret".  
>>
>Thanks for that link! It seems there's no real unity in what have been described as direct-inverse systems. The Mar22 inverse comes from a passive (also mentioned in the document); I wonder if a passive could come from a cislocative?
>
>>I can't find it now but I thought I remember another paper in which he discussed Cree and concluded that the modern inverse marker was an analogic restructuring of earlier parts of the agreement system.  That paper left me imagining that another source of inverse marking is from messy agreement systems, where various morphological slots can be filled by different arguments in different configurations conditioned by whatever, tidying themselves up and letting some stray morph get exapted into an inverse marker.
>>
>I may have read that. I'll try to find it.
>
>>In any case, direct/inverse doesn't seem like an easy thing to get early in the grammaticalisation lifetime of the verb, to me.
>>
>>>The personal pronouns start as independent words, but are now appended to the verb. The 1st pronoun to be appended is the direct agent or inverse patient. These pronouns include a relativizer and an imperative marker in addition to those marking person and number, so that the suffix also determines the order. The only forms for which 1st pronoun is omitted are the ones used adverbially. The 2nd pronoun to be appended is either a reflexive pronoun or an animacy-distinguishing 3rd person pronoun. They're originally used only as patients of active verbs, but come to also mark the animacy of any 3rd person or relativized patient. At this point, the new final V of the word, if any, is deleted (where possible) or reduced to *ë. 
>>
>>(I imagine it's different for you, given your practice, but it throws me off to read "1st" rather than "first" in a discussion of pronouns where "1st person" is not meant!)
>>
>OK.
>
>>>Note: I don't have an explanation for the applicative prefixes! 
>>
>>David Peterson (not ours!) discusses this in chapter 5 of his _Applicative Constructions_
>>  https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u8ESDAAAQBAJ
>>but basically doesn't have any surprises up his sleeve: applicatives come from adpositions or verbs (like 'give') that construe the sorts of argument-adding senses adpositions might.  It can be helped out by transformations like topicalisation that move a noun phrase but strand its adposition near the verb where it can grammaticalise on.  He also suggests the origin of a comitative applicative in a causative, by the semantic development 'causing' > 'doing along with', and maybe thence to a benefactive.  Are these sorts of origins helpful for you?
>>
>They might be, considering I don't have any other ideas. That seems to imply that the applicatives have the same origin as the corresponding case markers in some instances. I haven't looked at that book yet; Google books is always difficult.
>
>Jeff
>
>>There's a more curious Yimas case where an adverbial prefix 'carefully' can have applicative force, and where my Google books access cut out he was discussing a case in Ngan'gityemerri where an applicative seems to have come from 'eye' grammaticalising with many different uses, one of them being 'in the sight of X'.
>>
>>Alex

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