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CONLANG  April 2017, Week 3

CONLANG April 2017, Week 3

Subject:

Re: unusual phonological features?

From:

Gage Amonette <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 21 Apr 2017 08:32:54 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (196 lines)

>
> the t'elχ are a non-humanoid race with a highly developed collective
> intelligence who have no vocal chords comparable to ours, and the primary
> use of the language is for their shared internal monologue, but it can
> potentially be spoken aloud by an assimilated human.


And how would a human go about becoming assimilated?

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 3:21 AM, Katerina <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> p.s. sorry about the absent-minded mistakes.
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:17 PM, Katerina <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > *> Not sure if you'd consider this a good thing or a bad thing, but I'm
> > pretty sure every one of these (or something close) is attested in some
> > natlang. If you want things that are "naturalistic" but rare, then that's
> > good. *
> >
> > that's exactly what i had in mind - features that are relatively uncommon
> > in existing human languages, but do occur in some of them. after all, i
> > would want the conlang to be possible to pronounce. :)
> >
> > think klingon but not quite with the same flavor. all in all, i was
> > looking for a sound that might be considered harsh yet melodic in its own
> > distinctive way. after all, i'd want the conlang to be possible to
> > pronounce. :) what comes to mind first is synaesthetic imagery like a
> > medium-sized mountain stream falling down a ledge or a sword flashing in
> > bright sunlight, but that probably doesn't make a great deal of sense.
> >
> > the t'elχ are a non-humanoid race with a highly developed collective
> > intelligence who have no vocal chords comparable to ours, and the primary
> > use of the language is for their shared internal monologue, but it can
> > potentially be spoken aloud by an assimilated human. the same word is
> used
> > for "speech, verbal communication" and "song" and our protagonist, a
> human
> > biologist assimilated, separated and re-assimilated by the t'elχ, would
> > consistently describe her experience of belonging to their collective
> > consciousness as "singing together as one", so i've been trying to
> create a
> > more liquid, flowing feel - abundant non-rhotic sonorants, aspirated or
> > not, an agglutinative morphology and active incorporation of the
> > chukchi/nivkh type resulting in lengthy words, phonemic changes triggered
> > by syntactic context (as in nivkh), a rich vocalic inventory (though i
> see
> > several possibilities there and haven't settled on any single one). at
> the
> > same time, i see the language as having quite a few elements with the
> > potential of being perceived as abrupt, sharp and unpleasant to human
> ears,
> > hence the broad range of fricative and affricate phonemes, the ejectives,
> > the aspirated plosives and the widespread use of the glottal and
> epiglottal
> > stop (as in itelmen).
> >
> > one might also imagine hissing, whistling, chirping, creaking or rustling
> > noises, the sort that would come across as alien and be associated with a
> > (somewhat) insectoid species.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *> I hear/read about this quite a lot, but I suspect that's largely a
> > selection effect- the languages that have these huge clusters get talked
> > about a lot precisely because they are weird. Berber, Caucasian
> languages,
> > and Salish languages are classic examples.*
> >
> > the caucasian languages and itelmen are what i had in mind when i was
> > compiling the table. not sure whether this is true of other caucasian
> > languages, but it's interesting that in georgian, while the consonant
> > clusters can be quite long (up to 7-8 in some cases), they are pronounced
> > very lightly and the language as a whole has a melodic, flowing sound.
> > itelmen has much the same consonant concentration and a similar feel,
> and i
> > guess that was the overall impression i was aiming at in t'elχ.
> >
> > i haven't gotten round to researching the salishan languages to any
> > serious extent but i did have a glimpse at basic nuxalk grammar and
> > phonology and found them fascinating (and a little intimidating - i'm not
> > sure i would be able to master this kind of complexity).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *> Highly asymmetric inventories are pretty unusual. I don't think, for
> > example that there are any known natlangs with, e.g. 5 front vowels and
> no
> > back vowels, or 5 back vowels and no front vowels. Rounded front vowels
> but
> > no rounded back vowels would also be strange, as well as diagonal
> > inventories, like high front and low back but no low front or high back,
> or
> > vice-versa.*
> >
> > thanks! what i have so far is this http://moonflower77.
> > dreamwidth.org/180982.html
> >
> > i started out combining the basic vowel frameworks of italian, japanese,
> > itelmen and hungarian, all of them relatively simple and straightforward,
> > but later introduced some sounds from thai and mandarin which i liked and
> > could see (hear) in t'elχ.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 6:59 PM, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 19 April 2017 at 04:50, Katerina <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> > i've just started to revise my conlang, which is now called t'elχ, and
> >> have
> >> > been thinking of the potential phonological features it might have
> that
> >> > would be unusual for most natural languages and could help create a
> more
> >> > alien sound. the ones i have thought of so far are as follows:
> >>
> >> Not sure if you'd consider this a good thing or a bad thing, but I'm
> >> pretty sure every one of these (or something close) is attested in
> >> some natlang. If you want things that are "naturalistic" but rare,
> >> then that's good. If, on the other hand, your definition of sufficient
> >> alienness is "no human language ever does this", you may have to try
> >> harder!
> >>
> >> > a) extensive consonant clusters (up to 8 consonants not separated by a
> >> > glottal stop or epenthetic vowel);
> >>
> >> I hear/read about this quite a lot, but I suspect that's largely a
> >> selection effect- the languages that have these huge clusters get
> >> talked about a lot precisely because they are weird. Berber, Caucasian
> >> languages, and Salish languages are classic examples.
> >>
> >> > b) a phonemic distinction between voiced and voiceless nasals;
> >> > c) a phonemic distinction between voiced and voiceless lateral
> >> approximants;
> >> > d) full range of nasal and lateral approximant phonemes (voiced and
> >> > voiceless);
> >> > e) absence of any voiced plosives;
> >>
> >> This isn't terribly weird. Lack of voiced *phones* may be a little
> >> more weird, but there are lots of language which only have voiceless
> >> plosive phonemes- see Polynesian languages for examples.
> >>
> >> > f) a phonemic distinction between non-aspirated aspirated (murmured or
> >> > breathy-voiced) nasals and lateral approximants;
> >> > g) the presence of aspirated fricatives and a three-way distinction
> >> between
> >> > voiceless, ejective and aspirated fricatives;
> >> > h) a three-way distinction between plain (tenuis), ejective and
> >> aspirated
> >> > plosives;
> >> > i) one of the most common consonant sounds, [t], is present, but [k]
> is
> >> > absent;
> >>
> >> Hawaiian kind of does this. Both [t] and [k] are present, but they are
> >> allophones of a single /k/ phoneme.
> >>
> >> > j) the presence of retroflex consonants (laminal or apical, without
> >> > r-coloring);
> >>
> >> This may be "alien" to Anglophones, but again lots of natlangs have
> these.
> >>
> >> > k) absence of any rhotic consonants, r-colored vowels or rhoticization
> >> > processes.
> >>
> >> That's much more unusual, but also attested.
> >>
> >> > perhaps you could suggest any more? in particular, it'd be interesting
> >> to
> >> > hear what would be less usual with respect to vowels as i haven't
> >> > researched the topic quite as extensively.
> >>
> >> Highly asymmetric inventories are pretty unusual. I don't think, for
> >> example that there are any known natlangs with, e.g. 5 front vowels
> >> and no back vowels, or 5 back vowels and no front vowels. Rounded
> >> front vowels but no rounded back vowels would also be strange, as well
> >> as diagonal inventories, like high front and low back but no low front
> >> or high back, or vice-versa.
> >>
> >> -l.
> >>
> >
> >
>

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November 2006, Week 1
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April 2006, Week 5
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April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
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March 2006, Week 3
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March 2006, Week 1
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December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
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October 2005, Week 1
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April 2005, Week 5
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March 2005, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 5
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February 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 3
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November 2003, Week 3
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June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
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April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
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November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
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March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 3
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February 2002, Week 1
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December 2001, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 1
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February 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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