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CONLANG  April 2017, Week 3

CONLANG April 2017, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Allative and other local cases (was:: The Sith Language)

From:

Jyri Lehtinen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 21 Apr 2017 18:14:04 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (117 lines)

If you want even more names, at least in Uralic studies you also find a lot
of use for a "lative" case in reference to a more generic movement-to case.
Granted, it's very helpful to have distinct case names handy if you need to
contrast generic and more specialised local cases, but another important
point is that there's a certain amound of fluidity in the case terminology.

Similarly, the choice between the various names of the prolative case
("prolative", "prosecutive", "traversal", "vialis" etc.;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolative_case) only seems to be a matter of
tradition and naming tastes.

   -Jyri


2017-04-21 17:39 GMT+02:00 Gage Amonette <[log in to unmask]>:

> >
> > I checked in Trask (A Dictionary of Grammatical Terms in
> > Linguistics) as he was, among other things, an authority on
> > Basque. He lists only _allative_ with the gloss: "A case
> > form which typically indicates the goal of motion: Basque
> > _etxera_ 'to the house' (_etxe_ 'house')."
> > Trask makes no mention of an alternative _adlative_
> > spelling.  I assume _adlative_ is a later hypercorrection on
> > the analogy of _ablative <- ab+lative_, so _adlative <-
> > ad+lative_.
>
>
> Whether it is a hypercorrection or no, I searched on Google Books, as  Mr.
> Kearsley did, and it came up with a number of results. Some of them *are
> *from
> Basque, so perhaps Trask just didn't include it in his terminology. You
> know how experts can be with terms like those.
>
> https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=Adlative+case
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:14 AM, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > On 20/04/2017 22:27, Eyal Minsky-Fenick wrote:
> >
> >> I /thought/ allative came from adsimilating ad+lative.
> >>
> >
> > Correct - tho we are dealing with an assimilation in _Latin_ itself.
> >
> > The Latin adjective _ablātīvus_, coined over 2K years ago,
> > is derived from the supine of the verb:
> > auferō, auferre, abstulī, abāltum = to carry away
> > (ab + ferō, ferre, tulī, lātum)
> >
> > The ablative case (cāsus ablātīvus) denoted, inter_alia,
> > 'movement away from.'
> >
> > Therefore, centuries later when linguists found languages,
> > e.g. Finnish, with a case denoting 'toward(s)', they coined
> > 'allative' from the Latin verb:
> > afferō, afferre, attulī, allātum = to carry toward(s)
> > (ad + ferō, ferre, tulī, lātum)
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > On 20/04/2017 22:47, Gage Amonette wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>> Fear not! It may not be common, but there are genuine
> >>> results for "adlative" as the opposite of "ablative"
> >>> (synonymous with "allative") in Google Books. It
> >>> appears to be used in grammars of Basque and a book on
> >>>  subject of clitics in general (glossing abbreviation
> >>> ADLAT).
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> You're right. Perhaps it was too early to admit spelling
> >>  defeat.
> >>
> >
> > I checked in Trask (A Dictionary of Grammatical Terms in
> > Linguistics) as he was, among other things, an authority on
> > Basque. He lists only _allative_ with the gloss: "A case
> > form which typically indicates the goal of motion: Basque
> > _etxera_ 'to the house' (_etxe_ 'house')."
> >
> > Trask makes no mention of an alternative _adlative_
> > spelling.  I assume _adlative_ is a later hypercorrection on
> > the analogy of _ablative <- ab+lative_, so _adlative <-
> > ad+lative_.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > The Latin ablative did have other meanings besides 'movement
> > (away) from_; that is because the Latin case was in fact an
> > amalgam of at least three earlier PIE cases: ablative,
> > instrumental & locative (tho a separate locative did survive
> > for names of cities and two nouns: domus = 'house', rūs =
> > 'country[side]').
> >
> > But to return to the proper meanings of ablative and
> > allative, we find that Finnish and Estonian have a fine set
> > of local cases:
> >     Allative case ("onto")
> >     Ablative case ("from off")
> >     Elative case ("out of")
> >     Illative case ("into")
> >     Adessive case ("on")
> >     Inessive case ("in")
> >
> > The -latives imply motion, the -essives no motion.
> >
> > Many, many moons ago I outline a similar system for a
> > conlang sketch that is now, alas, lost.
> >
> > Ray
> >
>

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