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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  April 2017, Week 4

CONLANG April 2017, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Internal Reconstruction Question

From:

Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:47:30 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (29 lines)

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:47:19 +0000, The Scribbler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Thank you for all of this! I did miss a few things when trying to concisely explain the whole thing.

To my eye the parts you left out were the weird ones...

>To start at last question first: there's polypersonal agreement; in fact, they're actually primary, which is why pronouns don't get used a lot anymore at all.
>
>Topic is the first argument slot and usually but not always is conflated with agent or patient. In least marked form, the last argument slot is the other core argument, agent or patient.

starting here!  I haven't seen a language where "non-topic core argument" is a syntactic relation.  That said, I guess your system is the sort of thing one might expect from a morphologisation of a topic-comment word order where the comment is VSO.  Then there would originally be two (or more) suffixal agreement slots on the verb.  But usually only one would be filled 'cause the topic slot preempts the other, and that could easily relax to a system where there's actually only one slot there.

What happens synchronically when topic is neither agent nor patient?

>So if you needed to explicitly mark the first person topic marker as referencing the patient, you would normally just stress it for ágato. If you wanted the topic to stay you but you're the one doing the meeting and the 2nd person is being met, then you'd swap stress to agató. 

Also curious.  IM-natlang-E normally by the time a category (has become so automatic in the speakers' minds that it) morphologises, it doesn't allow this kind of noncommittal option anymore.  Instead every choice means something, with the formally-unmarked one taking its meaning by implicature from the fact that you didn't use the others.  To wit, the sort of systems I would find normal are
_ágato_ topic is patient, _agato_ topic is not patient (no *_agató_)
or
_ágato_ topic is patient, _agató_ nontopic core argument is patient, _agato_ there is no patient in this clause.

(I'm overlooking the complication that stress in your language can also be genitive etc.; the basic point doesn't rely on that.)

>Which basically means, you can go from mid tone to low tone, but you can't go from high tone to a low tone. So it just switches to the alternate vowel set. Which may not have made a lot of sense if I thought too much about it, but it felt right and worked beautifully in practice, so I just have to learn to understand prosody now that I want to analyze it. And there is also that the the alternate vowel markers can be used for oblique, noncore arguments but stress is pretty much always accusative and sometimes genitive (head-marked). 

Neat.  So the vowel-changed versions appear only when the accented versions can't, as a surrogate.  That to me says that their distribution will be recent.  I.e. originally when the high tone blocking rule arose, the paradigms where it operated just merged accented and unaccented forms.  But some subparadigm somewhere had these vowel-shifted patient markers (a vanished consonant could still be the culprit, etc.) and they were then generalised to all positions next to low-tone vowels, to reintroduce the contrast.

Alex

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