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CONLANG  April 2017, Week 4

CONLANG April 2017, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Direct-Inverse languages & relative clauses

From:

Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 27 Apr 2017 23:27:34 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (63 lines)

On 27 April 2017 at 22:59, J S Jones <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 22:06:30 -0600, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>As I recently discovered, Valaklwuuxa has a bit of a problem with
>>inverse voice marker sometimes having to fill two different roles:
>>switching how subject & object roles are assigned to arguments, and
>>switching which argument is made the target of relativization. Since
>>relative clauses are kind of a big deal in Valaklwuuxa (every single
>>noun phrase obligatorily includes one), this can create some
>>problematic conflicts.
>>
>>In order to resolve this in a satisfactory manner, I feel like I need
>>to educate myself more on natural languages with direct-inverse
>>alignment, and particularly how they handle relative clauses and what
>>restrictions they have on relativization.
>>
>>So, does anybody know of good papers or other resources on these
>>topics that I could check out?
>>
>>-l.
>
> I'm afraid I don't have any resources (all I know is that direct-inverse languages vary, but you might look into Algonquian conjunct order if you haven't already). However, I do have questions. What kind relative clauses are you using and why does every noun phrase need one?

Every noun phrase needs a relative clause because there are no lexical
nouns- so the only thing that can head a noun phrase is a free
relative clause. Since most of the language is relative clauses, they
are extremely light-weight. Currently, if a subject is specified, the
clause is either a complement clause or a main clause; if a subject is
not specified, it's a relative clause with a relativized subject. This
means most relative clauses are only one word long (plus whatever
words make up successively embedded clauses), and they kind of might
as well be nouns except for their obvious inflectional morphology.

> Also, I would think that there would be only 1 pair of arguments: either proximate and obviative or relativized and other.

There is. The difficulty comes from a conflict between how roles are
assigned to each argument in the pair, and how one is selected for
relativization.

Say you have a typical transitive verb that assigns an agent role to
its subject and a patient role to its object. In direct voice, the
proximate argument becomes the subject and the agent, while the
obviative argument becomes the object and patient. But what if we want
to express a situation in which the obviative argument is actually the
agent? Well, then we use the inverse voice, which reverses the usual
role assignments and makes the obviative argument both the subject and
the agent and makes the proximate argument both the object and the
patient. So far, so good. So what if you want to relativize the
patient? Well, you try to use the inverse voice to reverse the role
assignments... but it's reversing the case (subject vs. object)
assignments at the same time, so you're stuck!

So, there need to be separate mechanisms for reshuffling case
assignments, changing what the subject and object are or otherwise
changing which argument is relativized, vs. reshuffling the assignment
of semantic roles to each case.

It's not too hard to come up with workable ways to manage that, but,
like I said, I don't think I can feel satisfied with one without
having a better idea of how natlangs actually do it.

-l.

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