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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  May 2017, Week 1

CONLANG May 2017, Week 1

Subject:

Re: At an Impasse

From:

Jim Thain <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 7 May 2017 14:01:12 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (122 lines)

I would research other abugidas or abjads. A good and easy way to do so is
Omniglot.com. He has an impressive collection of both earthly writing
systems, and conlang writing systems. Lot's of good inspiration there.

On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Brian Bourque <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Great advice from both of you! Thank you very much.
>
> kechpaja wrote:
> > So, one thing you could do would be to create a diacritic for /i/ as
> > well, and then re-purpose the current /i/ letter to carry the vowel
> > diacritics in vowel-initial syllables (if you have those). Then you can
> > keep the letter, but you probably won't end up using it nearly as much,
> > since (most likely, unless you have a verb vowel-heavy language) most of
> > the instances of /i/ will occur in a consonant-initial syllable.
>
> I have a letter which I intended to be a vowel-initial carrier: the glottal
> stop. All vowel-initiated words in Lortho begin with a glottal stop
> (similar to Arabic and Persian); however I do like the idea of reassigning
> the letter to be a vowel carrier in cases where diphthongs are present.
>
> Alex Fink wrote:
> > As for your worries about inconsistency of shape, have a look at Ge'ez,
> which just embraces
> > inconsistency.  Ge'ez is an abugida, but there is enough idiosyncracy in
> the way the vowel
> > markers accommodate themselves to the particular consonant they're on
> that I've never seen
> > anyone present it except by giving a complete table of all of the CV
> forms.  For example Ge'ez
> > /u/ is a stroke sticking out to the right, but it plants itself at
> different heights on different letters,
> > whatever looks best.  /a/ is usually "extend the right leg" if there is a
> right leg, and "grow a
> > right leg" if there are no legs, but "bend the leg left at its bottom" if
> there's only one leg, and
> > attached to /r/ and especially /n/ it's just idiosyncratic.  And so on.
>
> This is a great option. I was thinking about a possible abugida, but I
> never thought to research Ge'ez. It looks like this could be the
> inspiration I've been looking for. I will do a little more tweaking with
> both of your inputs and see if I can find something satisfactory to work
> with.
>
>
> very respectfully,
>
> Brian B. Bourque
> SFC, USA (Ret)
> (206) 755-1863
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
> On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 7 May 2017 18:24:14 +0300, kechpaja <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > >On Sun, May 07, 2017 at 10:18:19AM -0400, Brian Bourque wrote:
> > >> Hello everyone. I hope this finds you all in good spirits.
> > >>
> > >> I am in need of some different perspectives. I have been working on a
> > script for my language for some time now and I am still not pleased with
> > it; albeit I am pleased with the aesthetics. The way it is currently set
> > up, I have 22 letters, one of which is the vowel [i]. My intent was to
> > write the other vowels ([ɑ], [ɛ], [o], [u]) as diacritics. My inspiration
> > for this was from Hindi and Tibetan. Unfortunately, due to the style of
> > script I created, the inconsistency of each letter has made it difficult
> to
> > find (a) suitable diacritic(s) that would work for all letters without
> > looking a bit off. I have tested quite the variety of diacritics, none of
> > which feel like they do the job the way I have envisioned. So now I am at
> > an impasse: Do I eradicate [i] to make a true abjad or do I created
> letters
> > to represent the other vowels to make a true alphabet? Do I redesign [i]
> to
> > look different than it is now? Do I make vowel-consonant marriages into
> > ligatures?
> > >>
> > >> Here is my current pseudo-abjad:
> > >>
> > >> <http://www.linguifex.com/w/images/c/c5/Lortho_Alphabet.JPG>
> > [...]
> > >
> > >So, one thing you could do would be to create a diacritic for /i/ as
> > >well, and then re-purpose the current /i/ letter to carry the vowel
> > >diacritics in vowel-initial syllables (if you have those). Then you can
> > >keep the letter, but you probably won't end up using it nearly as much,
> > >since (most likely, unless you have a verb vowel-heavy language) most of
> > >the instances of /i/ will occur in a consonant-initial syllable.
> >
> > That's a nice idea.  In particular that letter by itself could still have
> > the value /i/, regularly, if the diacritic for /i/ was zero.  This would
> > cause ambiguities between Ci and coda C elsewhere, though, unless you had
> > some other mechanism for codas.  (Or maybe the diacritic for /i/ is along
> > the lines of "extend the top of the stem", which wouldn't make a big
> > difference to the appearance of that letter.)
> >
> > Perhaps all your letter for /i/ needs for redesign is to sweep left as it
> > falls, to look more like ノ, as the spines of your /t s h b r/ and
> arguably
> > /n/ do now.
> >
> > As for your worries about inconsistency of shape, have a look at Ge'ez,
> > which just embraces inconsistency.  Ge'ez is an abugida, but there is
> > enough idiosyncracy in the way the vowel markers accommodate themselves
> to
> > the particular consonant they're on that I've never seen anyone present
> it
> > except by giving a complete table of all of the CV forms.  For example
> > Ge'ez /u/ is a stroke sticking out to the right, but it plants itself at
> > different heights on different letters, whatever looks best.  /a/ is
> > usually "extend the right leg" if there is a right leg, and "grow a right
> > leg" if there are no legs, but "bend the leg left at its bottom" if
> there's
> > only one leg, and attached to /r/ and especially /n/ it's just
> > idiosyncratic.  And so on.
> >
> > Alex
> >
>

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