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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  May 2017, Week 3

CONLANG May 2017, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Vulcan, and alien names in general (was: Martial vs Martian)

From:

Siva Kalyan <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 19 May 2017 21:27:08 +1000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (105 lines)

(Ignore that second question; I should know better about ice ages!)

Siva

> On 19 May 2017, at 9:24 pm, Siva Kalyan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> I never understood why monoclimatic planets are a problem—surely Tatooine was meant to evoke Mars? And how different is Hoth from Earth during an Ice Age? Whole-planet swamps and forests are admittedly more problematic.
> 
> Siva
> 
>> On 19 May 2017, at 9:05 pm, Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>> 
>>> What really bugs me is that in interplanetary fiction it is almost always assumed
>> that alien planets have one language each.
>> 
>> I usually headcanon that as simply the planet's current "lingua franca"; an
>> alien coming to Earth today would probably learn English and might well
>> refer to it as "the" Earthling/Human language, despite the thousands
>> of languages still spoken on our little blue marble.  Perhaps, in an
>> optimistic space-operatic future, all those other planets have long since
>> established an auxlang, and it's only the stubborn Earthlings who haven't.
>> I like the way Babylon 5 addressed this in the case of religion, another
>> popular subject of alien monoculturization.
>> 
>> In the Klingon Dictionary it is stated that the Klingons historically
>> adopted the tongue of the current Emperor. I guess they got stuck on the
>> last one, since we've seen them go through several Chancellors without
>> changing languages.
>> 
>> We have real-world examples of this sort of thing on a smaller scale
>> already, such as the longstanding Chinese practice of presenting
>> the dominant culture and language as the only one, with the other languages
>> of China being merely "dialects".
>> 
>> Are monolinguistic planets more or less realistic than
>> monoclimatic-yet-habitable ones such as Tattooine and Hoth?
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:01 AM, Melroch <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>> 
>>> What really bugs me is that in interplanetary fiction it is almost always
>>> assumed that alien planets have one language each. Why would they when
>>> Earth demonstrably does not. Or one language per species, which is just as
>>> unlikely for much the same reasons. You might argue that to an alien
>>> visitor English might seem to be *the* language of Earth/humans, but what
>>> if the aliens happened to land in Russia or South America, or China? Would
>>> they get that impression then?
>>> 
>>> /bpj
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Den 19 maj 2017 00:10 skrev "Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>:
>>> 
>>>> Canonically, in _Enterprise_, the planet was referred to in the Vulcan
>>>> language as "Vulkanfi", so it's at least close. Specifically, the phrase
>>>> "Vulkanfi tozhi dawru" was subtitled as "He wanted to visit Vulcan."
>>>> 
>>>> The Vulcan scenes in the first two films were shot in English and
>>>> overdubbed with plausible lip-reading matches, but they did create some
>>>> snippets of Vulcan for the third that were actually filmed as such. They
>>>> appeared to do more actual Vulcan language development for _Enterprise_,
>>>> but I don't know any details; for all I know the -fi could be a suffix
>>> that
>>>> creates a homeworld from a people, or an allative, or an accusative, or
>>>> just part of the name
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 5:48 PM, Matthew George <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Diane Duane's works had the 'Vulcan' homeworld have many names, and
>>> also
>>>>> established that Spock's biology was engineered, but there's often a
>>>>> problem making even the various official continuities match.  Vulcan
>>> has
>>>> no
>>>>> moon - yet has a very large and conspicuous one in the first movie.
>>>> Duane
>>>>> solved the problem by pointing out that the technical meaning of the
>>> term
>>>>> doesn't mean what most people think it does - and that Earth doesn't
>>>> have a
>>>>> moon either, strictly speaking.  To return the discussion back to
>>>> language.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Lots of technical terms have divergent meanings from the common one,
>>>> which
>>>>> leads to some odd problems.  Every rose has its thorn, except that
>>> roses
>>>>> don't have thorns - to name one example.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> 

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