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CONLANG  May 2017, Week 3

CONLANG May 2017, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Vulcan, and alien names in general (was: Martial vs Martian)

From:

Eyal Minsky-Fenick <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 19 May 2017 09:14:49 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (150 lines)

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 7:27 AM, Siva Kalyan <[log in to unmask]
> wrote:

> (Ignore that second question; I should know better about ice ages!)
>
> Siva
>
> > On 19 May 2017, at 9:24 pm, Siva Kalyan <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > I never understood why monoclimatic planets are a problem—surely
> Tatooine was meant to evoke Mars? And how different is Hoth from Earth
> during an Ice Age? Whole-planet swamps and forests are admittedly more
> problematic.
>
Hoth reminds me of the Cryogenian period. That ice age had several
glaciations that covered almost the whole planet.
Meanwhile, we are technically in an ice age.

> > Siva
> >
> >> On 19 May 2017, at 9:05 pm, Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask] <mailto:
> [log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> What really bugs me is that in interplanetary fiction it is almost
> always assumed
> >> that alien planets have one language each.
> >>
> >> I usually headcanon that as simply the planet's current "lingua
> franca"; an
> >> alien coming to Earth today would probably learn English and might well
> >> refer to it as "the" Earthling/Human language, despite the thousands
> >> of languages still spoken on our little blue marble.  Perhaps, in an
> >> optimistic space-operatic future, all those other planets have long
> since
> >> established an auxlang, and it's only the stubborn Earthlings who
> haven't.
> >> I like the way Babylon 5 addressed this in the case of religion, another
> >> popular subject of alien monoculturization.
> >>
> >> In the Klingon Dictionary it is stated that the Klingons historically
> >> adopted the tongue of the current Emperor. I guess they got stuck on the
> >> last one, since we've seen them go through several Chancellors without
> >> changing languages.
> >>
> >> We have real-world examples of this sort of thing on a smaller scale
> >> already, such as the longstanding Chinese practice of presenting
> >> the dominant culture and language as the only one, with the other
> languages
> >> of China being merely "dialects".
> >>
> >> Are monolinguistic planets more or less realistic than
> >> monoclimatic-yet-habitable ones such as Tattooine and Hoth?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:01 AM, Melroch <[log in to unmask] <mailto:
> [log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> What really bugs me is that in interplanetary fiction it is almost
> always
> >>> assumed that alien planets have one language each. Why would they when
> >>> Earth demonstrably does not. Or one language per species, which is
> just as
> >>> unlikely for much the same reasons. You might argue that to an alien
> >>> visitor English might seem to be *the* language of Earth/humans, but
> what
> >>> if the aliens happened to land in Russia or South America, or China?
> Would
> >>> they get that impression then?
> >>>
> >>> /bpj
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Den 19 maj 2017 00:10 skrev "Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>:
> >>>
> >>>> Canonically, in _Enterprise_, the planet was referred to in the Vulcan
> >>>> language as "Vulkanfi", so it's at least close. Specifically, the
> phrase
> >>>> "Vulkanfi tozhi dawru" was subtitled as "He wanted to visit Vulcan."
> >>>>
> >>>> The Vulcan scenes in the first two films were shot in English and
> >>>> overdubbed with plausible lip-reading matches, but they did create
> some
> >>>> snippets of Vulcan for the third that were actually filmed as such.
> They
> >>>> appeared to do more actual Vulcan language development for
> _Enterprise_,
> >>>> but I don't know any details; for all I know the -fi could be a suffix
> >>> that
> >>>> creates a homeworld from a people, or an allative, or an accusative,
> or
> >>>> just part of the name
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 5:48 PM, Matthew George <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Diane Duane's works had the 'Vulcan' homeworld have many names, and
> >>> also
> >>>>> established that Spock's biology was engineered, but there's often a
> >>>>> problem making even the various official continuities match.  Vulcan
> >>> has
> >>>> no
> >>>>> moon - yet has a very large and conspicuous one in the first movie.
> >>>> Duane
> >>>>> solved the problem by pointing out that the technical meaning of the
> >>> term
> >>>>> doesn't mean what most people think it does - and that Earth doesn't
> >>>> have a
> >>>>> moon either, strictly speaking.

ISTR Star Trek Star Charts made it a double planet with the other one
rather Mars-like.

> >>>>To return the discussion back to
> >>>> language.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lots of technical terms have divergent meanings from the common one,
> >>>> which
> >>>>> leads to some odd problems.  Every rose has its thorn, except that
> >>> roses
> >>>>> don't have thorns - to name one example.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >
>

Anyway, that Esperanto story is kind of funny.

-- 
Eyal Joseph Minsky-Fenick
[log in to unmask] (personal)
[log in to unmask] (school)
203-393-1394 (home)
203-988-2234 (cell)
9 Birch Rd., Woodbridge, CT 06525

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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
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December 2004, Week 1
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September 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 1
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December 2002, Week 1
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November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
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August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
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August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
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July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 3
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March 2002, Week 1
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January 2002, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 5
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June 2000, Week 5
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February 1999, Week 5
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February 1999, Week 1
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December 1998, Week 5
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