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CONLANG  July 2017, Week 2

CONLANG July 2017, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Afterward/ba9dain provenance

From:

Jeffrey Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 9 Jul 2017 09:47:55 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (74 lines)

Northern Midwestern American:

"I'll see you later"  -- normal
??"I'll see you after"  -- marginal
"Jill came tumbling after"  -- poetic/archaic

And I have not heard "afterwards" used much in colloquial speech. So I
don't know if its presence is obsoleting "after." Rather:
"JIll came tumbling afterwards"  to me, that seems stilted or flowery, yet
correct
"Jill came tumbling after him"  to me, that's normal usage



On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Jul 9, 2017 13:02, "And Rosta" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> On 8 July 2017 at 00:49, Guilherme Holzmann dos Santos <
> [log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Also, as And has noted, there are no languages insofar where ALL lexemes
> > can be perfectly fit into its PoS
> > system.
> >
>
> I'd much rather say that all lexemes must be perfectly fitted into the PoS
> system, but the PoS system is as complex as necessary to accommodate all
> lexemes. One PoS might contain a single lexeme. (That at any rate is how
> I'd state my view based on the traditional notion of PoSs as classes of
> lexemes; my actual view is rather different.)
>
> On 7 July 2017 at 19:49, Jeffrey Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Midwest American [IL, WI, MN]]  (according to me :)  )
> >
> > Normally, I would say: " John came, then Mary came."
> >
> > "John came. Afterwards Mary came."  -- Sound stilted, but acceptable.
> > "John came. After that Mary came."  -- Acceptable.
> > "John came. After, Mary came." -- No. Unacceptable.
>
>
> So "I'll see you after" sounds very British, and "Jill came tumbling after"
> sounds British and/or archaic?
>
> I wonder if, as Ian Spackman suggested, it's the existence of _afterwards_
> that leads to the obsolescence of the grammatically equivalent use of
> _after_. If so, the lack of 'beforewards' predicts that "John came; before,
> Mary had come." should be okay even for those rejecters of intransitive
> _after_. Maybe this explanation would also predict that "Jill came tumbling
> after", "John followed after", are acceptable because they're spatial and
> not covered by the -- temporal -- meaning of _afterwards_. But I also kind
> of expect that the obsolescence of intransitive _after_ will be shared by
> _before_, so that rejecters of intransitive _after_ will want also to
> reject intransitive _before_, and replace it by _earlier_ or the like.
>
> --And.
>
>
> Notice that while *"beforewards" doesn't exist, "beforehand" *does*. Make
> of that what you will...
> --
> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
> President of the Language Creation Society (http://conlang.org)
>
> Personal Website: http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com
> Personal Tumblr:  http://christophoronomicon.tumblr.com
>
> Sent from my phone. Sorry for the potential typos and autocorrect errors.
>

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