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CONLANG  July 2017, Week 3

CONLANG July 2017, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Nasal Vowels

From:

Doug Barton <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 19 Jul 2017 20:13:00 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (85 lines)

My question is better phrased like this:  Do you think a contrast (using 
made-up words) like [dõ] (Lus. δoη) vs [dõn] (Lus. δo·η) is legitimate 
considering the second probably doesn't exist in a real language?

On 7/19/2017 6:43 PM, Doug Barton wrote:
> Well if we're talking about a nasal consonant in coda position then 
> no, no vowel can appear in both oral and nasal form before a coda nasal:
>
> [u o i e] and their pharyngealized counterparts [ᵾ ɑ ɨ ə] will all be 
> nasalized (they are all +palatalized)
>
> [ʊ ɔ ɪ ɛ] and their pharyngealized counterparts [ᵿ ɒ ᵻ a] will never 
> be nasalized, nor [æ] (these are all –palatalized) -- hope these vowel 
> symbols show up correctly in email!
>
> There's a difference in vowel quality in every case, I see your 
> point.  Thanks.  So do you think [+nasal V] [+nasal C] is legitimate 
> (that is, when the vowel is followed by a geminated nasal)?
>
> On 7/19/2017 5:13 PM, Eyal Minsky-Fenick wrote:
>> Hang on, is there any vowel that can appear both nasalized and
>> non-nasalized before a nasal consonant?
>> In other words, the sequence /am/ shows up as [am], but the sequence 
>> /ǝm:/
>> shows up as [ǝ̃m], right?
>> If the only possible contrast before a nasal consonant is between
>> [+palatal, +nasal] and [-palatal, -nasal],
>> then there is no real need to worry about a contrast between [+nasal
>> V][+nasal C] and [-nasal V][+nasal C],
>> as there is a difference also in vowel quality.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Doug Barton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> It's looking like the sequence is too exotic to be real, which is 
>>> what INo
>>> was a little afraid of.  Darn, my rules account for it perfectly, but I
>>> guess I'll just write up another rule that specifically blocks 
>>> nasalization
>>> before a geminated nasal consonant.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the responses.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/19/2017 3:05 PM, Galen Buttitta wrote:
>>>
>>>> I mean, *technically* Oneida and Mohawk/Kanien'kéha do, but 
>>>> nasalization
>>>> isn't really contrastive on the vowels (I.e., the nasal vowels have no
>>>> plain counterparts).
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 19, 2017, at 14:52, Tony Harris <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>> Abenaki, perhaps?  Or others in the Algonquin family?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>>>> -------- Original message --------From: Doug Barton 
>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Date: 7/19/17  14:24  (GMT-05:00) To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: [CONLANG] Nasal Vowels
>>>>> Hello conlangers. Can anyone help me think of a (natural) language 
>>>>> that
>>>>> allows the sequence {nasal vowel + nasal consonant) in the same
>>>>> syllable?  I'm looking for this in languages that contrast oral and
>>>>> nasal vowels, not ones with oral vowels only but where vowels may be
>>>>> nasalized to some degree just by proximity to a nasal consonant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Writing a little recap of vowel nasalization in Lusitanian (link 
>>>>> below,
>>>>> where "palatalized" with respect to vowels means "tense") got me
>>>>> wondering what other languages use this sequence contrastively, but I
>>>>> can't think of any.  Lusitanian has it when a vowel is followed by a
>>>>> geminated nasal.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0m_-64EIoH6QVFVMUQzN3BlV3c
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to whoever can enlighten me.
>>>>> Doug
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
>

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