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CONLANG  July 2017, Week 5

CONLANG July 2017, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Reform to Chinese orthography

From:

Raymond Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 30 Jul 2017 20:30:20 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (55 lines)

On 30/07/2017 13:43, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> Hallo conlangers!
>
> On 30/07/2017 12:04 Raymond Brown wrote:
[snip]
> (strange to me) _b, p, bh_ and _d, t, dh_.   I can, however,
> understand from a Chinese perspective, why he
> wanted single symbols for the aspirates and, if digraphs had to be
> used, using them for the voiced series, -
> however, using _h_ to show voicing does seem odd.
> It does! That kind of spelling suggests that the language is like the
> standard reconstruction of Proto-Indo-European, with
> voicleless/voiced/breathy-voiced triads!

It would seem, from BJP's comment, that we have tenuis, aspirated and 
breathy-voiced triads.
> Using _h_ for voicing is
> bizarre;

Apparently for breathy-voiced or, as the Wikipedia page says (which I 
should have read
more carefully) "muddy"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Chinese

[snip]
>> The use of _c_ = /k/ is questionable.
> It is. Of course, /k/ is the "original" (i.e., Classical Latin) value of
> _c_, and it still is in Welsh and Irish (also, inspired by that, in the
> standard romanizations of Quenya and Sindarin).

Middle Irish use of _c_ =/k/ is, I guess, inherited from pre-Medieval 
Latin usage;
the modern Irish & Scots prthographies are derived from Middle irish 
orthography.

But the modern Welsh use of _c_ = /k/ is not a retention of Latin 
usage.  It is a
post-Medieval innovation, dating from 16th century because, apparently, 
printers did/
/not have /e/nough _k_ letters in their type cases "as the Welsh requireth."
In Medieval Welsh /k/ was very frequently spelled _k_ - always so before 
front vowels.
The adoption of using _c_ universally for /k/ was almost certainly due 
to this use in
William Morgan's Welsh Bible of 1588; this use was not liked by many at 
the time.

> But many languages use
> it differently.

I know of no other natlang orthographies that use _c_ exclusively to 
denote /k/.

Ray

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