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CONLANG  August 2017, Week 1

CONLANG August 2017, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Language Diversity

From:

Leo Moser <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 5 Aug 2017 13:15:49 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (62 lines)

(Leo adds his views on the below comments by Victor.)

Language diversity is IMO primarily the result of geographic isolation. A hundred thousand years back our species was already spreading widely. In the process we encountered distant relatives like the Neanderthal and Denisovans from whom we had been even longer isolated geographically and linguistically. Yes, I believe all humans had spoken languages.

…

Not only is sheer distance involved in language diversity, but the differing features of environments lead to very different needs, challenges, and innovations. Alaskan tribes do not require a large set of terms for types of bamboo or for things made from them. Pastoral African tribes may have dozens of words for cattle with various markings, but no word for snow. 

…

Most of the differences are far more subtle, of course, but  just as real. Each language is the result of a thousand generations of ancestors trying to puzzle out reality. (That’s one reason why it’s so important to preserve endangered languages.) 

…

To account for linguistic change, there’s also the effect of drift over time. This works somewhat like what we find with genetic drift in isolated populations. Kids seldom talk just like the old folks. 

…

Languages also impact on each other, causing change. If your DNA is 2% Neanderthal, perhaps your language has a 2% Neanderthal input. Who knows? 

…

More importantly, I don’t see much evidence at all of the competitive and exclusionist factors implied in Victor’s message. Secrecy of communication, code systems and the like, do exist, but are IMO minor factors in creating linguistic diversity on a global scale. ( I’ll concede that Boontling might be a case of this:         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boontling but the phenomenon is IMO rare. )

…

In general, most humans want to communicate as widely as possible. That’s the name of the game. There’s usually much to gain, not only for trade but in terms of group security itself. 

…

I hesitate to mention it, but I see glimmers of Chauvinism in the comment that "Anthorpology has learned that many hunter-gathering societies do not suffer as much from disease or starvation like the Westerners believed."  This comment seems to depict “the Westerners” as a whole, and as having a particularly negative attitude toward primitive society—attitudes perhaps not typical elsewhere. Guilt perhaps implied.

….

In fact, the Classical Tradition of early Western Europe contains a great deal of literature evidencing idyllic views of primitive mankind. Tales from the Greeks and Romans often show this—perhaps even back to the Garden of Eden. Some of Shakespeare’s plays reflect such themes. In medieval tales the hunter often ranks above the ploughman. The Enlightenment saw the conceptual expansion of such views, consider Rousseau and many others—primitive man living in a state of nature was seen to have had an ideal life, especially when compared to what such authors saw around them.

…

Obviously there were negative thoughts about primitive tribal societies. But these were common in many places, not just among “the Westerners.” For thousands of years the Chinese names for surrounding barbarian tribes were based on pictograms that classified them as if dogs or bugs. The Japanese looked down on the Ainu and their hunter-gatherer way of life, consequently prohibited it. The agricultural Bantu treated the pygmies and other hunter-gatherer groups they displaced as if subhuman. 

…

We know that circum-global Western European exploration, imperialism, and settlement led to the disappearance of countless local languages. So did the spread of Islam—from westernmost Africa into central China. So did the spread of the Russian Empire across most of North Asia. If we go back far enough in time, so did the ancient spread of agriculturists and pastoralist speaking forms of what we call early Indo-European into Europe-West of the-Pontic-Plains and southeast into the Indus-Ganges-Zone. The picture is a complex one. That’s the main thing I’m trying to say.

Best regards,          LEO

……………..

Leo John Moser

-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Victor Chan
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 4:34 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Language Diversity

 

I had read the article on the link and I suggest a reason for the language diversity: group competition between conspecific. Humans are social species who naturally form a group to compete against another human groups for land and resource; the ability to develop a common language within a human group that cannot be understood by another human group would be beneficial. Contrary to Western belief on social progress, humans live in more advanced society not because of the desire for better life but because of its competitive advantage.

Anthorpology has learned that many hunter-gathering societies do not suffer as much from disease or starvation like the Westerners believed; in fact, the Ju'hoansi, an African hunter-gatherer, have abundent food, work little, and are healthy even when compared to American standard unless they are subjected by a foreign power. Researches on past human societies and on other animals also indicate that larger group size provide more competitive advantage but are constrained by limited resource.

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