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CONLANG  August 2017, Week 2

CONLANG August 2017, Week 2

Subject:

Re: 4th person

From:

Virginia Keys <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 12 Aug 2017 20:45:54 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (93 lines)

So does 4th person refer to anything specifically, or is it just a label for a pronoun class that doesn't fall under 1st, 2nd, or 3rd?


On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 21:30:14 -0500, MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>In Saweli-Saxita (and Latejami), the fourth person is a combination of 1st
>and 2nd. 5th is 1st + 3rd, 6th is 2nd + 3rd, and 7th is 1st + 2nd + 3rd.
>It's all very binary.
>
>stevo
>
><https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-3176-a?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=oa-3176-a>
>Virus-free.
>www.avast.com
><https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-3176-a?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=oa-3176-a>
><#m_851172054455754723_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
>On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:20 PM, A Walker Scott <[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
>
>> Lrahran's fourth person pronouns are used for impersonal referents, like
>> you (or him or her...or even me!) as the representative of a larger entity.
>> Typically it is used when addressing the representative of a guilty
>> organization whose individual representative shares no part of the blame,
>> and other similar types of situations where one wushes to differentiate
>> between the person being addressed and the larger group the individual is a
>> part of.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 17, 2017, Jyri Lehtinen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> > I have both reflexive and non-reflexive 3rd person possessive suffixes
>> for
>> > Kišta which are used both in possessive constructions and in conjugating
>> > dependent verb forms, e.g.
>> >
>> > girl bread-ACC-3.REFL.POSS eat
>> > "The girl ate her bread", reflexive possession
>> >
>> > girl (boy) bread-ACC-3SG.POSS eat
>> > "The girl ate the boy's bread. / The girl ate his_j bread." non-reflexive
>> > possession
>> >
>> > I've occasionally thought to label these as 3rd and 4th person possessive
>> > suffixes but I'm now confident that calling these reflexive and
>> > non-reflexive possessive suffixes is much clearer and to the point.
>> >
>> >    -Jyri
>> >
>> >
>> > 2017-07-18 0:48 GMT+02:00 C. Brickner <[log in to unmask]
>> > <javascript:;>>:
>> >
>> > > Thank you very much; it's a start. I dread having to go back through
>> all
>> > > my translations and revising them.
>> > > Charlie
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask] <javascript:;>>
>> > > To: [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
>> > > Sent: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:29:32 -0400 (EDT)
>> > > Subject: Re: 4th person
>> > >
>> > > On 17 July 2017 at 13:27, C. Brickner <[log in to unmask]
>> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> > > > If any of you use 4th person pronouns in your conlangs, please
>> explain
>> > > to me how you use them.
>> > >
>> > > Valaklwuuxa has very few free pronouns, but it recognizes a fourth
>> > > person in verb agreement and oblique pronouns. The 3rd person in
>> > > Valaklwuuxa is typically used for proximate objects (i.e., things you
>> > > can point to or interact with) and people who are part of the
>> > > discourse, even if they are not currently being addressed (which would
>> > > make them 2nd person), but it  can also be used for highly topical
>> > > things even if they are not actually proximate. The fourth person then
>> > > covers everything else that the English 3rd person usually would-
>> > > people who are excluded from the discourse, things that are distal
>> > > (out of sight, inaccessible), and things that have very low topicality
>> > > / discourse relevance. It also interacts with the animacy hierarchy,
>> > > such that if you have a direct-voice verb marked for 3p+4p, it is
>> > > assumed that the 3rd person referent is something more topical, acting
>> > > on some other less important thing, while a 3p+3p conjugation leaves
>> > > the door open for more ambiguity since both arguments are selected
>> > > from the same set of topical/proximal referents in the discourse.
>> > >
>> > > -l.
>> > >
>> >
>>

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